"The Shed" guitar
- Trevor Gore
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"The Shed" guitar
When I moved into "The Shed" about 12 years ago I did the usual reno's and removed a fair amount of wood from the place. A lot of it I kept around, thinking some day it would be nice to make a guitar out of the bits. Then came "the book" and the "Wood for Guitars" paper for the ASA, then Lacey then an order for a classical guitar with a steel string top, which I built and enjoyed before delivering it to its new owner. So with all those influences, I though it was about time to build "The Shed" guitar, built using only bits of wood and stuff salvaged from the reno's.
The top is radiata pine salvaged from some bunk beds (5 pieces); the falcate bracing is Oregon pine from a second hand door off the old outside dunny; the back is light red meranti (4 piece) from the shelving out of a kitchen cupboard (braced with Oregon), the sides, neck and linings are from what I think is dark red meranti (or some other Shorea species) from another shelf of the same cupboard (the heel is a five layer lamination); the headstock facing is huon pine from the ends of an old spice rack; the rosette is red gum (I think) from a bit of firewood that had some figure in it (the black lines are cardboard!!); the bindings, back stripe, heel cap and fretboard binding are from a piece of figured jarrah that used to be a fence paling. The fretboard is brush box. It took a lot of work to figure out what it was. It was from the bottom plate of a stud wall. It was either brush box or turpentine, both possibilities in this area, but the flame test proved it to be brush box. The fret edge markers are from a set of 3mm aluminium knitting needs found in the bottom of a wardrobe (which then lived in the cutlery drawer for 12 years (!)). The bridge is more of that dark red meranti. Gotoh tuners, with my usual nut and saddle compensation. The sound board is finished with high gloss French polish (!) and the back and sides are finished with nitro.
So, I can already hear the question "How does it sound"? Well, unlike Taylor, Benedetto or Bucknall, I'm not going to tell you that it sounds as good as my usual guitars. It doesn't. Radiata has a density 30% greater than Engelmann and is only ~65% as stiff (well, that's how these bits measured up), so you start well behind the eight ball and that straight away limits the monopole mobility you can get. But having said that, it will still blow the nuts of most things you can buy in a shop. So it definitely has the Gore family sound, but not quite as much of it. Having been strung less than a day, I expect the sound to develop some and become more refined, but it's never going to be as loud as most of my other instruments, but plenty loud enough none the less. The real test, of course, is will it be a guitar I will pick up and play? And the answer, I think, will be yes.
The great learning out of this, though, is that I used all my standard design techniques (thicknessing formulae etc.) on wood species that I'd never used before and they all worked. It's a 100/180/226 guitar for those who recognise those numbers.
Here's some pics: There's a pic of the bracing here: viewtopic.php?f=1&t=3809#p45510
The top is radiata pine salvaged from some bunk beds (5 pieces); the falcate bracing is Oregon pine from a second hand door off the old outside dunny; the back is light red meranti (4 piece) from the shelving out of a kitchen cupboard (braced with Oregon), the sides, neck and linings are from what I think is dark red meranti (or some other Shorea species) from another shelf of the same cupboard (the heel is a five layer lamination); the headstock facing is huon pine from the ends of an old spice rack; the rosette is red gum (I think) from a bit of firewood that had some figure in it (the black lines are cardboard!!); the bindings, back stripe, heel cap and fretboard binding are from a piece of figured jarrah that used to be a fence paling. The fretboard is brush box. It took a lot of work to figure out what it was. It was from the bottom plate of a stud wall. It was either brush box or turpentine, both possibilities in this area, but the flame test proved it to be brush box. The fret edge markers are from a set of 3mm aluminium knitting needs found in the bottom of a wardrobe (which then lived in the cutlery drawer for 12 years (!)). The bridge is more of that dark red meranti. Gotoh tuners, with my usual nut and saddle compensation. The sound board is finished with high gloss French polish (!) and the back and sides are finished with nitro.
So, I can already hear the question "How does it sound"? Well, unlike Taylor, Benedetto or Bucknall, I'm not going to tell you that it sounds as good as my usual guitars. It doesn't. Radiata has a density 30% greater than Engelmann and is only ~65% as stiff (well, that's how these bits measured up), so you start well behind the eight ball and that straight away limits the monopole mobility you can get. But having said that, it will still blow the nuts of most things you can buy in a shop. So it definitely has the Gore family sound, but not quite as much of it. Having been strung less than a day, I expect the sound to develop some and become more refined, but it's never going to be as loud as most of my other instruments, but plenty loud enough none the less. The real test, of course, is will it be a guitar I will pick up and play? And the answer, I think, will be yes.
The great learning out of this, though, is that I used all my standard design techniques (thicknessing formulae etc.) on wood species that I'd never used before and they all worked. It's a 100/180/226 guitar for those who recognise those numbers.
Here's some pics: There's a pic of the bracing here: viewtopic.php?f=1&t=3809#p45510
Fine classical and steel string guitars
Trevor Gore, Luthier. Australian hand made acoustic guitars, classical guitars; custom guitar design and build; guitar design instruction.
Trevor Gore, Luthier. Australian hand made acoustic guitars, classical guitars; custom guitar design and build; guitar design instruction.
Re: "The Shed" guitar
Congratulation's Trevor ,
You have managed the preverbial , plum jam ot of Pig Sh%t , or a silk Purse form a Pigs Ear . it' hones the Point that as Traditional Tone woods become more scarce, we need to at least open our minds to alternatives, Strato once Talked me out of Using a King billy pine top on one of My Guitars , because he said he had never heard a good one , so I stashed it , but if got the better of me , So I used it on viewtopic.php?f=25&t=3301 using your Methods , and it sounded awsome . in The end I was happy I tried , I showed it to Strato , he was duly impressed with the sound , I want to take the Bunnings Challenge one day just for the hell of it .
Cheers,
Paul.
You have managed the preverbial , plum jam ot of Pig Sh%t , or a silk Purse form a Pigs Ear . it' hones the Point that as Traditional Tone woods become more scarce, we need to at least open our minds to alternatives, Strato once Talked me out of Using a King billy pine top on one of My Guitars , because he said he had never heard a good one , so I stashed it , but if got the better of me , So I used it on viewtopic.php?f=25&t=3301 using your Methods , and it sounded awsome . in The end I was happy I tried , I showed it to Strato , he was duly impressed with the sound , I want to take the Bunnings Challenge one day just for the hell of it .
Cheers,
Paul.
Paul .
- christian
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Re: "The Shed" guitar
Trevor , I shudder to think how awesome your guitars look when you build with great materials
fantastic workmanship !! it just goes to show that guitars can be made out of practically anything and still look and sound good. Can't say I've ever contemplated Radiata for a top, good on you for giving it a crack.
Cheers,
Christian.
fantastic workmanship !! it just goes to show that guitars can be made out of practically anything and still look and sound good. Can't say I've ever contemplated Radiata for a top, good on you for giving it a crack.
Cheers,
Christian.
Why does the eye see a thing more clearly in dreams than the imagination when awake?
Leonardo da Vinci
www.christiandruery.com
Leonardo da Vinci
www.christiandruery.com
- woodrat
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Re: "The Shed" guitar
Hi Trevor, that is very impressive indeed and goes to show that its not so much the materials necessarily but the intelligent application of solid fundamental principles and good design that maketh the guitar.
I am in the process of adding more GoreTec to my guitars and am finding that they are vastly improved over the shot in the dark method that I used to employ.
Again the application of solid fundamental principles and good design. Of particular note are things like string height and bridge rotation target values that really help to get you in the tone zone.
Thank you for showing us the Shed.
Regards
John

I am in the process of adding more GoreTec to my guitars and am finding that they are vastly improved over the shot in the dark method that I used to employ.

Thank you for showing us the Shed.
Regards
John
"It's never too late to be what you might have been " - George Eliot
Re: "The Shed" guitar
Trevor
I would be more than happy to look after it over the Christmas break and play a few sets of strings through it so you can attend to other more important stuff.
Steve
P.S Please.
I would be more than happy to look after it over the Christmas break and play a few sets of strings through it so you can attend to other more important stuff.
Steve
P.S Please.
- Cookie man
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Re: "The Shed" guitar
Wow. really nice.
Would it be possible to get a sound recording soon?
Cheers

Would it be possible to get a sound recording soon?
Cheers
needsmorecowbel wrote: Markus it doesn't count when you briefly duck out the shed, make a fly fishing rod, then catch a trout from your hand carved canoe, package it (with the hand made vacuum machine) and then take a photo with your home made electron microscope....

- charangohabsburg
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Re: "The Shed" guitar
I like this striped top too, and it is a really beautiful guitar!
If someone has not these ideas such as spruce and western red cedar should be the only top woods, the "eyes of the old man" in the headstock are the only hint that this guitar has not been built with so called "high grade tonewood".
"It's the maker, not the wood".

If someone has not these ideas such as spruce and western red cedar should be the only top woods, the "eyes of the old man" in the headstock are the only hint that this guitar has not been built with so called "high grade tonewood".
"It's the maker, not the wood".
Markus
To be stupid is like to be dead. Oneself will not be aware of it.
It's only the others who suffer.
To be stupid is like to be dead. Oneself will not be aware of it.
It's only the others who suffer.
- Trevor Gore
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Re: "The Shed" guitar
Thanks for the kind words everyone. I can't help thinking about bananas in pyjamas every time I see this guitar.
I was hoping to do some recording today, but got caught up mixing down other stuff. What was interesting though, is that I heard the guitar from the front side for the first time as a friend was playing it and it sounds better than I thought (or maybe it's just his playing!). I doubt anyone would be able to pick it from a spruce top (other than by looks). I should be able to get a sound sample up in the next couple of weeks, but don't expect anything "different". It is well within the trade specs for a good guitar, especially by the time it's been MP3'd.Cookie man wrote:Would it be possible to get a sound recording soon?
Fine classical and steel string guitars
Trevor Gore, Luthier. Australian hand made acoustic guitars, classical guitars; custom guitar design and build; guitar design instruction.
Trevor Gore, Luthier. Australian hand made acoustic guitars, classical guitars; custom guitar design and build; guitar design instruction.
Re: "The Shed" guitar
We only got a few shots of your guitars in the book so it good to see another one. Beautiful workmanship, and I love your materials list.
What shape is it? Look slightly classical but somehow not, a cross between a hauser and an L-00? Or is that the steel strings putting me off.
Cheers
Dom
What shape is it? Look slightly classical but somehow not, a cross between a hauser and an L-00? Or is that the steel strings putting me off.
Cheers
Dom
You can bomb the world to pieces,
but you can't bomb the world to peace!
but you can't bomb the world to peace!
- Trevor Gore
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Re: "The Shed" guitar
It's my "classical" classical shape (as opposed to my neo-classical shape).Dominic wrote:What shape is it?
Here's the same shape in more normal surroundings: And here's a fairly typical SS with some good ol' blokes playing: Nearly lost that guitar...but it was already sold (pre Lacey...those were the days...)Dominic wrote:We only got a few shots of your guitars in the book so it good to see another one.
Fine classical and steel string guitars
Trevor Gore, Luthier. Australian hand made acoustic guitars, classical guitars; custom guitar design and build; guitar design instruction.
Trevor Gore, Luthier. Australian hand made acoustic guitars, classical guitars; custom guitar design and build; guitar design instruction.
Re: "The Shed" guitar
So its just a slightly wider lower bout? About 380mm? Its a really nice shape. Full and fruity without being too blobby, like your 25 year old girlfriend.
Are those pics from a GAL conference or something? How were your guitars received?
I hope to get to hear some of your guitars some day. I don't have much access to good guitars, lots of crap ones but I'd like to know where the bar is and how far away i am from clearing it.
Cheers
Dom
Are those pics from a GAL conference or something? How were your guitars received?
I hope to get to hear some of your guitars some day. I don't have much access to good guitars, lots of crap ones but I'd like to know where the bar is and how far away i am from clearing it.
Cheers
Dom
You can bomb the world to pieces,
but you can't bomb the world to peace!
but you can't bomb the world to peace!
- Trevor Gore
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Re: "The Shed" guitar
365mm lower bout.Dominic wrote:So its just a slightly wider lower bout? About 380mm?
How did you know I have a 25 yr old girl friend?Dominic wrote:Full and fruity without being too blobby, like your 25 year old girlfriend.
Healdsburg, 2009. That guitar was bought in the US by the second guy who heard it. The first played only flamenco.Dominic wrote:Are those pics from a GAL conference or something? How were your guitars received?
Next time you're heading for Sydney, give me a call.Dominic wrote:I hope to get to hear some of your guitars some day.
Fine classical and steel string guitars
Trevor Gore, Luthier. Australian hand made acoustic guitars, classical guitars; custom guitar design and build; guitar design instruction.
Trevor Gore, Luthier. Australian hand made acoustic guitars, classical guitars; custom guitar design and build; guitar design instruction.
Re: "The Shed" guitar
Trevor, whatever you've done with the outline it looks really nice and less angular than my Hausers.trevtheshed wrote:365mm lower bout.Dominic wrote:So its just a slightly wider lower bout? About 380mm?How did you know I have a 25 yr old girl friend?Dominic wrote:Full and fruity without being too blobby, like your 25 year old girlfriend.Healdsburg, 2009. That guitar was bought in the US by the second guy who heard it. The first played only flamenco.Dominic wrote:Are those pics from a GAL conference or something? How were your guitars received?Next time you're heading for Sydney, give me a call.Dominic wrote:I hope to get to hear some of your guitars some day.
Now on to bigger issues, the 'your' in 'like your 25 year old girlfriend' was a generic or global 'your' and not specific to you or any individual. So in this respect I am trying to conjure an image of the archetypal 25 year old girl, fruity without a hint of blobbiness or approaching cellulite. But I just realised there is another weak point in my analogy. The way society is going (sideways, outwards) these day its probably harder and harder to find an archetypal 25 year old that fits the specific point I was trying to make. I better clean out my old analogies.
Thanks for the offer to meet you. I don’t get up there much but next time I am sure to call you first.
Cheers
Dom
You can bomb the world to pieces,
but you can't bomb the world to peace!
but you can't bomb the world to peace!
Re: "The Shed" guitar
BTW Trevor, is classical CL_B made from narra (NG rosewood)? Neck even looks like narra. I ask because one of the classicals I just finished is made from very tight curly narra. Very golden colour. Similar to yours. I used cocobolo binding which adds a richness to the colours.
Cheers
Dom
Cheers
Dom
You can bomb the world to pieces,
but you can't bomb the world to peace!
but you can't bomb the world to peace!
- Trevor Gore
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Re: "The Shed" guitar
Thanks! Yeh, you can mess with guitar outlines ad infinitum. I use Jon Sevy's great little app. for doing body shapes. Really easy to use...http://gicl.cs.drexel.edu/people/sevy/l ... tware.html. It's the "Guitar Design Java Application" that you need. The later versions (which Jon was kind enough to modify for me) may only work on PC rather than Mac. It will do bridges and headstocks too, once you get to know it.Dominic wrote: Trevor, whatever you've done with the outline it looks really nice and less angular than my Hausers.
I was only joking! Stop digging!Dominic wrote:Now on to bigger issues,...
You're most welcome, as is anyone else heading this way. Call first though, because you have Buckley's of finding my place otherwise.Dominic wrote:Thanks for the offer to meet you.
CL_B is Palo Dorado(!), binding is just EIR.Dominic wrote:BTW Trevor, is classical CL_B made from narra (NG rosewood)?
Not the same guitar, but a similar one of mine can be heard hear:
youtu.be/
..and a EIR one here.
youtu.be/...Pipe them through decent speakers...
(I'll get the "pyjama" guitar up, one of these days...)
Now here's a puzzle for you: The recordings were made with more-or-less identical settings; no EQ, no reverb, nuthin'. The guitars have soundboards that are as identical as two soundboards can get, same bracing, cut from the same quadrant of the same tree and could even be next door slices, or if not, very close. Different sounds, and it's nothing to do with the the B & S wood. So what's going on?
Fine classical and steel string guitars
Trevor Gore, Luthier. Australian hand made acoustic guitars, classical guitars; custom guitar design and build; guitar design instruction.
Trevor Gore, Luthier. Australian hand made acoustic guitars, classical guitars; custom guitar design and build; guitar design instruction.
Re: "The Shed" guitar
Recorded at different times during the day? We don't many big humidity swings in Canberra but when we do my guitars change sound. I like them better when it is dry.
Dom
Dom
You can bomb the world to pieces,
but you can't bomb the world to peace!
but you can't bomb the world to peace!
Re: "The Shed" guitar
Now that's how a Youtube demo should sound. Both of them sound great.
Both Falcates? tuned to different pitch? Heavy sides to one?
Both Falcates? tuned to different pitch? Heavy sides to one?
Re: "The Shed" guitar
I would imagine it has much to do with the capo...beautiful sounding guitars either way.trevtheshed wrote: Now here's a puzzle for you: The recordings were made with more-or-less identical settings; no EQ, no reverb, nuthin'. The guitars have soundboards that are as identical as two soundboards can get, same bracing, cut from the same quadrant of the same tree and could even be next door slices, or if not, very close. Different sounds, and it's nothing to do with the the B & S wood. So what's going on?

P.S. To have your youtube vids display in thread, click the "Youtube" button in the edit window once the link is highlighted rather than the "URL" button.
Cheers
Kim
- peter.coombe
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Re: "The Shed" guitar
I very much doubt it is the capo or differing humidity, there is something fundamentally different about the two guitars that affects the sound. The difference is too big to be capo or humidity. My guess it has something to do with the bridge. Pity we can't see the bridge in the video. Mabe a different wood in the bridge, one is heavier than the other??
Peter Coombe - mandolin, mandola and guitar maker
http://www.petercoombe.com
http://www.petercoombe.com
Re: "The Shed" guitar
OK, I read the question again and I had assumed that the guitars were identical (including freq response). but now I am going to assume they are not.
So guitar A the uncappoed guitar has a lower main coupled top response (and the main air and main back are appropriately placed . While guitar B has a higher main top freq which helps it to support the treble strings. It is played cappoed and so a higher (T1,1)2 would make it better suited to to playing higher up the fret board on the treble side.
Cheers
Dom
So guitar A the uncappoed guitar has a lower main coupled top response (and the main air and main back are appropriately placed . While guitar B has a higher main top freq which helps it to support the treble strings. It is played cappoed and so a higher (T1,1)2 would make it better suited to to playing higher up the fret board on the treble side.
Cheers
Dom
You can bomb the world to pieces,
but you can't bomb the world to peace!
but you can't bomb the world to peace!
- Trevor Gore
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Re: "The Shed" guitar
Thanks to Kim for the YouTube tips and thanks everyone who's had a go answering the question...
Thanks again,
Trevor.
I'll beg your indulgence a little longer, then answer all the questions. Apologies for the capo, it doesn't make this any easier (so it's not the capo), but if you could explain (as best you can) the difference you're hearing, I'd really appreciate it. Firstly, to see if it is actually possible to get these sorts of things over via YouTube and secondly, if it is, to understand what different people hear and what their preferences are.trevtheshed wrote:Now here's a puzzle for you: The recordings were made with more-or-less identical settings; no EQ, no reverb, nuthin'. The guitars have soundboards that are as identical as two soundboards can get, same bracing, cut from the same quadrant of the same tree and could even be next door slices, or if not, very close. Different sounds, and it's nothing to do with the the B & S wood. So what's going on?
Thanks again,
Trevor.
Fine classical and steel string guitars
Trevor Gore, Luthier. Australian hand made acoustic guitars, classical guitars; custom guitar design and build; guitar design instruction.
Trevor Gore, Luthier. Australian hand made acoustic guitars, classical guitars; custom guitar design and build; guitar design instruction.
Re: "The Shed" guitar
OK Trevor I'll Bite at the risk of making an Ass of my self.
What I hear is the first guitar has a slightly brighter tone , with a marginally quicker attack/response and liitle more sustain , the bass is a little less woofy.
The secong giutar is a liitle warmer, the bass is a bit more pronounced , the sustain a little shorter.
I'm having a stab in the dark and guessing that maybe the second guitar has heavier strings , or the bridge/ bridge plate are a little denser.
My preference is def the First guitar , but they both sound great to me . if I heard the second one in Isolation I would stuggle to make any of those observations.
anyway my Very Humble Opinion.
Cheers,
What I hear is the first guitar has a slightly brighter tone , with a marginally quicker attack/response and liitle more sustain , the bass is a little less woofy.
The secong giutar is a liitle warmer, the bass is a bit more pronounced , the sustain a little shorter.
I'm having a stab in the dark and guessing that maybe the second guitar has heavier strings , or the bridge/ bridge plate are a little denser.
My preference is def the First guitar , but they both sound great to me . if I heard the second one in Isolation I would stuggle to make any of those observations.
anyway my Very Humble Opinion.
Cheers,
Paul .
- Trevor Gore
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Re: "The Shed" guitar
Thanks Paul. There's no wrong answers here. What you hear is what you hear! One of my early learnings was that there doesn't seem to be any such thing as "normal" hearing; another of the things that makes this game so hard (and so interesting...!)
Anyone else?
Anyone else?
Fine classical and steel string guitars
Trevor Gore, Luthier. Australian hand made acoustic guitars, classical guitars; custom guitar design and build; guitar design instruction.
Trevor Gore, Luthier. Australian hand made acoustic guitars, classical guitars; custom guitar design and build; guitar design instruction.
- ozziebluesman
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Re: "The Shed" guitar
Ok, to me guitar two has a fatter, more midrange dominated tone than the first guitar. Both great sounds and very sweetly played. Sometimes a higher action will give a guitar more volume and fuller tone. That's just a guess on my behalf of why they have different tones. Pity we can't hear them both in concert and a level playing field. Are they identical string gauge and brand?
Cheers
Alan
Cheers
Alan
"Play to express, not to impress"
Alan Hamley
http://www.hamleyfineguitars.com/
Alan Hamley
http://www.hamleyfineguitars.com/
Re: "The Shed" guitar
How come it has nothing to do with B&S?
Perhaps its the player, maybe the the distance from mic etc

Perhaps its the player, maybe the the distance from mic etc
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