"The Shed" guitar

A place where you can let us see your finished instruments in all their glory.

Moderators: kiwigeo, Jeremy D

User avatar
Trevor Gore
Blackwood
Posts: 1464
Joined: Mon Jun 20, 2011 8:11 pm

"The Shed" guitar

Post by Trevor Gore » Fri Nov 25, 2011 1:09 am

When I moved into "The Shed" about 12 years ago I did the usual reno's and removed a fair amount of wood from the place. A lot of it I kept around, thinking some day it would be nice to make a guitar out of the bits. Then came "the book" and the "Wood for Guitars" paper for the ASA, then Lacey then an order for a classical guitar with a steel string top, which I built and enjoyed before delivering it to its new owner. So with all those influences, I though it was about time to build "The Shed" guitar, built using only bits of wood and stuff salvaged from the reno's.

The top is radiata pine salvaged from some bunk beds (5 pieces); the falcate bracing is Oregon pine from a second hand door off the old outside dunny; the back is light red meranti (4 piece) from the shelving out of a kitchen cupboard (braced with Oregon), the sides, neck and linings are from what I think is dark red meranti (or some other Shorea species) from another shelf of the same cupboard (the heel is a five layer lamination); the headstock facing is huon pine from the ends of an old spice rack; the rosette is red gum (I think) from a bit of firewood that had some figure in it (the black lines are cardboard!!); the bindings, back stripe, heel cap and fretboard binding are from a piece of figured jarrah that used to be a fence paling. The fretboard is brush box. It took a lot of work to figure out what it was. It was from the bottom plate of a stud wall. It was either brush box or turpentine, both possibilities in this area, but the flame test proved it to be brush box. The fret edge markers are from a set of 3mm aluminium knitting needs found in the bottom of a wardrobe (which then lived in the cutlery drawer for 12 years (!)). The bridge is more of that dark red meranti. Gotoh tuners, with my usual nut and saddle compensation. The sound board is finished with high gloss French polish (!) and the back and sides are finished with nitro.

So, I can already hear the question "How does it sound"? Well, unlike Taylor, Benedetto or Bucknall, I'm not going to tell you that it sounds as good as my usual guitars. It doesn't. Radiata has a density 30% greater than Engelmann and is only ~65% as stiff (well, that's how these bits measured up), so you start well behind the eight ball and that straight away limits the monopole mobility you can get. But having said that, it will still blow the nuts of most things you can buy in a shop. So it definitely has the Gore family sound, but not quite as much of it. Having been strung less than a day, I expect the sound to develop some and become more refined, but it's never going to be as loud as most of my other instruments, but plenty loud enough none the less. The real test, of course, is will it be a guitar I will pick up and play? And the answer, I think, will be yes.

The great learning out of this, though, is that I used all my standard design techniques (thicknessing formulae etc.) on wood species that I'd never used before and they all worked. It's a 100/180/226 guitar for those who recognise those numbers.

Here's some pics:
DSCF2330s1.jpg
DSCF2330s1.jpg (144.71 KiB) Viewed 18241 times
DSCF2326s.jpg
DSCF2318s.jpg
DSCF2318s.jpg (40.6 KiB) Viewed 18241 times
DSCF2305s.jpg
DSCF2305s.jpg (47.08 KiB) Viewed 18241 times
DSCF2308s.jpg
DSCF2308s.jpg (41.87 KiB) Viewed 18241 times
DSCF2315s.jpg
DSCF2324s.jpg
There's a pic of the bracing here: viewtopic.php?f=1&t=3809#p45510

User avatar
ozwood
Blackwood
Posts: 625
Joined: Fri Oct 15, 2010 11:04 pm
Location: Newcastle

Re: "The Shed" guitar

Post by ozwood » Fri Nov 25, 2011 6:24 am

Congratulation's Trevor ,

You have managed the preverbial , plum jam ot of Pig Sh%t , or a silk Purse form a Pigs Ear . it' hones the Point that as Traditional Tone woods become more scarce, we need to at least open our minds to alternatives, Strato once Talked me out of Using a King billy pine top on one of My Guitars , because he said he had never heard a good one , so I stashed it , but if got the better of me , So I used it on viewtopic.php?f=25&t=3301 using your Methods , and it sounded awsome . in The end I was happy I tried , I showed it to Strato , he was duly impressed with the sound , I want to take the Bunnings Challenge one day just for the hell of it .



Cheers,

Paul.
Paul .

User avatar
christian
Blackwood
Posts: 338
Joined: Wed Oct 20, 2010 10:31 am
Location: Bay of Islands NZ
Contact:

Re: "The Shed" guitar

Post by christian » Fri Nov 25, 2011 6:52 am

Trevor , I shudder to think how awesome your guitars look when you build with great materials
fantastic workmanship !! it just goes to show that guitars can be made out of practically anything and still look and sound good. Can't say I've ever contemplated Radiata for a top, good on you for giving it a crack.

Cheers,

Christian.
Why does the eye see a thing more clearly in dreams than the imagination when awake?
Leonardo da Vinci

www.christiandruery.com

User avatar
woodrat
Blackwood
Posts: 1157
Joined: Tue Nov 25, 2008 6:31 am
Location: Hastings River, NSW.
Contact:

Re: "The Shed" guitar

Post by woodrat » Fri Nov 25, 2011 7:11 am

Hi Trevor, that is very impressive indeed and goes to show that its not so much the materials necessarily but the intelligent application of solid fundamental principles and good design that maketh the guitar. :D
I am in the process of adding more GoreTec to my guitars and am finding that they are vastly improved over the shot in the dark method that I used to employ. :D Again the application of solid fundamental principles and good design. Of particular note are things like string height and bridge rotation target values that really help to get you in the tone zone.

Thank you for showing us the Shed.

Regards

John
"It's never too late to be what you might have been " - George Eliot

Kamusur
Blackwood
Posts: 756
Joined: Thu Dec 30, 2010 10:08 pm

Re: "The Shed" guitar

Post by Kamusur » Fri Nov 25, 2011 9:53 pm

Trevor
I would be more than happy to look after it over the Christmas break and play a few sets of strings through it so you can attend to other more important stuff.

Steve

P.S Please.

User avatar
Cookie man
Myrtle
Posts: 60
Joined: Thu Aug 11, 2011 2:56 pm
Location: Adelaide, SA

Re: "The Shed" guitar

Post by Cookie man » Fri Nov 25, 2011 10:04 pm

Wow. really nice. :cl

Would it be possible to get a sound recording soon?
Cheers
needsmorecowbel wrote: Markus it doesn't count when you briefly duck out the shed, make a fly fishing rod, then catch a trout from your hand carved canoe, package it (with the hand made vacuum machine) and then take a photo with your home made electron microscope....
:lol:

User avatar
charangohabsburg
Blackwood
Posts: 1822
Joined: Sat Oct 16, 2010 1:25 am
Location: Switzerland

Re: "The Shed" guitar

Post by charangohabsburg » Sat Nov 26, 2011 5:11 am

I like this striped top too, and it is a really beautiful guitar! :D

If someone has not these ideas such as spruce and western red cedar should be the only top woods, the "eyes of the old man" in the headstock are the only hint that this guitar has not been built with so called "high grade tonewood".

"It's the maker, not the wood".
Markus

To be stupid is like to be dead. Oneself will not be aware of it.
It's only the others who suffer.

User avatar
Trevor Gore
Blackwood
Posts: 1464
Joined: Mon Jun 20, 2011 8:11 pm

Re: "The Shed" guitar

Post by Trevor Gore » Sun Nov 27, 2011 11:00 pm

Thanks for the kind words everyone. I can't help thinking about bananas in pyjamas every time I see this guitar.
Cookie man wrote:Would it be possible to get a sound recording soon?
I was hoping to do some recording today, but got caught up mixing down other stuff. What was interesting though, is that I heard the guitar from the front side for the first time as a friend was playing it and it sounds better than I thought (or maybe it's just his playing!). I doubt anyone would be able to pick it from a spruce top (other than by looks). I should be able to get a sound sample up in the next couple of weeks, but don't expect anything "different". It is well within the trade specs for a good guitar, especially by the time it's been MP3'd.

User avatar
Dominic
Blackwood
Posts: 1101
Joined: Thu Jan 10, 2008 8:58 am
Location: Canberra

Re: "The Shed" guitar

Post by Dominic » Mon Nov 28, 2011 6:49 pm

We only got a few shots of your guitars in the book so it good to see another one. Beautiful workmanship, and I love your materials list.

What shape is it? Look slightly classical but somehow not, a cross between a hauser and an L-00? Or is that the steel strings putting me off.

Cheers
Dom
You can bomb the world to pieces,
but you can't bomb the world to peace!

User avatar
Trevor Gore
Blackwood
Posts: 1464
Joined: Mon Jun 20, 2011 8:11 pm

Re: "The Shed" guitar

Post by Trevor Gore » Mon Nov 28, 2011 11:53 pm

Dominic wrote:What shape is it?
It's my "classical" classical shape (as opposed to my neo-classical shape).
Dominic wrote:We only got a few shots of your guitars in the book so it good to see another one.
Here's the same shape in more normal surroundings:
CL_R.jpg
CL_R.jpg (28.19 KiB) Viewed 17966 times
CL_B.jpg
CL_B.jpg (39.39 KiB) Viewed 17966 times
And here's a fairly typical SS with some good ol' blokes playing:
TH.jpg
ES.jpg
ES.jpg (53.62 KiB) Viewed 17966 times
Nearly lost that guitar...but it was already sold (pre Lacey...those were the days...)

User avatar
Dominic
Blackwood
Posts: 1101
Joined: Thu Jan 10, 2008 8:58 am
Location: Canberra

Re: "The Shed" guitar

Post by Dominic » Tue Nov 29, 2011 11:37 am

So its just a slightly wider lower bout? About 380mm? Its a really nice shape. Full and fruity without being too blobby, like your 25 year old girlfriend.

Are those pics from a GAL conference or something? How were your guitars received?

I hope to get to hear some of your guitars some day. I don't have much access to good guitars, lots of crap ones but I'd like to know where the bar is and how far away i am from clearing it.

Cheers
Dom
You can bomb the world to pieces,
but you can't bomb the world to peace!

User avatar
Trevor Gore
Blackwood
Posts: 1464
Joined: Mon Jun 20, 2011 8:11 pm

Re: "The Shed" guitar

Post by Trevor Gore » Tue Nov 29, 2011 1:05 pm

Dominic wrote:So its just a slightly wider lower bout? About 380mm?
365mm lower bout.
Dominic wrote:Full and fruity without being too blobby, like your 25 year old girlfriend.
How did you know I have a 25 yr old girl friend?
Dominic wrote:Are those pics from a GAL conference or something? How were your guitars received?
Healdsburg, 2009. That guitar was bought in the US by the second guy who heard it. The first played only flamenco.
Dominic wrote:I hope to get to hear some of your guitars some day.
Next time you're heading for Sydney, give me a call.

User avatar
Dominic
Blackwood
Posts: 1101
Joined: Thu Jan 10, 2008 8:58 am
Location: Canberra

Re: "The Shed" guitar

Post by Dominic » Thu Dec 01, 2011 6:10 pm

trevtheshed wrote:
Dominic wrote:So its just a slightly wider lower bout? About 380mm?
365mm lower bout.
Dominic wrote:Full and fruity without being too blobby, like your 25 year old girlfriend.
How did you know I have a 25 yr old girl friend?
Dominic wrote:Are those pics from a GAL conference or something? How were your guitars received?
Healdsburg, 2009. That guitar was bought in the US by the second guy who heard it. The first played only flamenco.
Dominic wrote:I hope to get to hear some of your guitars some day.
Next time you're heading for Sydney, give me a call.
Trevor, whatever you've done with the outline it looks really nice and less angular than my Hausers.

Now on to bigger issues, the 'your' in 'like your 25 year old girlfriend' was a generic or global 'your' and not specific to you or any individual. So in this respect I am trying to conjure an image of the archetypal 25 year old girl, fruity without a hint of blobbiness or approaching cellulite. But I just realised there is another weak point in my analogy. The way society is going (sideways, outwards) these day its probably harder and harder to find an archetypal 25 year old that fits the specific point I was trying to make. I better clean out my old analogies.


Thanks for the offer to meet you. I don’t get up there much but next time I am sure to call you first.
Cheers
Dom
You can bomb the world to pieces,
but you can't bomb the world to peace!

User avatar
Dominic
Blackwood
Posts: 1101
Joined: Thu Jan 10, 2008 8:58 am
Location: Canberra

Re: "The Shed" guitar

Post by Dominic » Thu Dec 01, 2011 7:00 pm

BTW Trevor, is classical CL_B made from narra (NG rosewood)? Neck even looks like narra. I ask because one of the classicals I just finished is made from very tight curly narra. Very golden colour. Similar to yours. I used cocobolo binding which adds a richness to the colours.
Cheers
Dom
You can bomb the world to pieces,
but you can't bomb the world to peace!

User avatar
Trevor Gore
Blackwood
Posts: 1464
Joined: Mon Jun 20, 2011 8:11 pm

Re: "The Shed" guitar

Post by Trevor Gore » Thu Dec 01, 2011 8:49 pm

Dominic wrote: Trevor, whatever you've done with the outline it looks really nice and less angular than my Hausers.
Thanks! Yeh, you can mess with guitar outlines ad infinitum. I use Jon Sevy's great little app. for doing body shapes. Really easy to use...http://gicl.cs.drexel.edu/people/sevy/l ... tware.html. It's the "Guitar Design Java Application" that you need. The later versions (which Jon was kind enough to modify for me) may only work on PC rather than Mac. It will do bridges and headstocks too, once you get to know it.
Dominic wrote:Now on to bigger issues,...
I was only joking! Stop digging!
Dominic wrote:Thanks for the offer to meet you.
You're most welcome, as is anyone else heading this way. Call first though, because you have Buckley's of finding my place otherwise.
Dominic wrote:BTW Trevor, is classical CL_B made from narra (NG rosewood)?
CL_B is Palo Dorado(!), binding is just EIR.
Not the same guitar, but a similar one of mine can be heard hear:


youtu.be/

..and a EIR one here.


youtu.be/...Pipe them through decent speakers...

(I'll get the "pyjama" guitar up, one of these days...)

Now here's a puzzle for you: The recordings were made with more-or-less identical settings; no EQ, no reverb, nuthin'. The guitars have soundboards that are as identical as two soundboards can get, same bracing, cut from the same quadrant of the same tree and could even be next door slices, or if not, very close. Different sounds, and it's nothing to do with the the B & S wood. So what's going on?

User avatar
Dominic
Blackwood
Posts: 1101
Joined: Thu Jan 10, 2008 8:58 am
Location: Canberra

Re: "The Shed" guitar

Post by Dominic » Sat Dec 03, 2011 5:14 pm

Recorded at different times during the day? We don't many big humidity swings in Canberra but when we do my guitars change sound. I like them better when it is dry.
Dom
You can bomb the world to pieces,
but you can't bomb the world to peace!

jeffhigh
Blackwood
Posts: 1510
Joined: Thu Feb 07, 2008 5:50 am
Location: Caves Beach, NSW
Contact:

Re: "The Shed" guitar

Post by jeffhigh » Sat Dec 03, 2011 7:22 pm

Now that's how a Youtube demo should sound. Both of them sound great.
Both Falcates? tuned to different pitch? Heavy sides to one?

User avatar
Kim
Admin
Posts: 4408
Joined: Wed Sep 26, 2007 8:32 pm
Location: South of Perth WA

Re: "The Shed" guitar

Post by Kim » Sun Dec 04, 2011 10:48 am

trevtheshed wrote: Now here's a puzzle for you: The recordings were made with more-or-less identical settings; no EQ, no reverb, nuthin'. The guitars have soundboards that are as identical as two soundboards can get, same bracing, cut from the same quadrant of the same tree and could even be next door slices, or if not, very close. Different sounds, and it's nothing to do with the the B & S wood. So what's going on?
I would imagine it has much to do with the capo...beautiful sounding guitars either way. 8)

P.S. To have your youtube vids display in thread, click the "Youtube" button in the edit window once the link is highlighted rather than the "URL" button.

Cheers

Kim

User avatar
peter.coombe
Blackwood
Posts: 608
Joined: Fri Oct 15, 2010 2:52 pm
Location: Bega, NSW
Contact:

Re: "The Shed" guitar

Post by peter.coombe » Sun Dec 04, 2011 6:12 pm

I very much doubt it is the capo or differing humidity, there is something fundamentally different about the two guitars that affects the sound. The difference is too big to be capo or humidity. My guess it has something to do with the bridge. Pity we can't see the bridge in the video. Mabe a different wood in the bridge, one is heavier than the other??
Peter Coombe - mandolin, mandola and guitar maker
http://www.petercoombe.com

User avatar
Dominic
Blackwood
Posts: 1101
Joined: Thu Jan 10, 2008 8:58 am
Location: Canberra

Re: "The Shed" guitar

Post by Dominic » Sun Dec 04, 2011 7:44 pm

OK, I read the question again and I had assumed that the guitars were identical (including freq response). but now I am going to assume they are not.
So guitar A the uncappoed guitar has a lower main coupled top response (and the main air and main back are appropriately placed . While guitar B has a higher main top freq which helps it to support the treble strings. It is played cappoed and so a higher (T1,1)2 would make it better suited to to playing higher up the fret board on the treble side.
Cheers
Dom
You can bomb the world to pieces,
but you can't bomb the world to peace!

User avatar
Trevor Gore
Blackwood
Posts: 1464
Joined: Mon Jun 20, 2011 8:11 pm

Re: "The Shed" guitar

Post by Trevor Gore » Sun Dec 04, 2011 8:18 pm

Thanks to Kim for the YouTube tips and thanks everyone who's had a go answering the question...
trevtheshed wrote:Now here's a puzzle for you: The recordings were made with more-or-less identical settings; no EQ, no reverb, nuthin'. The guitars have soundboards that are as identical as two soundboards can get, same bracing, cut from the same quadrant of the same tree and could even be next door slices, or if not, very close. Different sounds, and it's nothing to do with the the B & S wood. So what's going on?
I'll beg your indulgence a little longer, then answer all the questions. Apologies for the capo, it doesn't make this any easier (so it's not the capo), but if you could explain (as best you can) the difference you're hearing, I'd really appreciate it. Firstly, to see if it is actually possible to get these sorts of things over via YouTube and secondly, if it is, to understand what different people hear and what their preferences are.

Thanks again,

Trevor.

User avatar
ozwood
Blackwood
Posts: 625
Joined: Fri Oct 15, 2010 11:04 pm
Location: Newcastle

Re: "The Shed" guitar

Post by ozwood » Sun Dec 04, 2011 8:35 pm

OK Trevor I'll Bite at the risk of making an Ass of my self.

What I hear is the first guitar has a slightly brighter tone , with a marginally quicker attack/response and liitle more sustain , the bass is a little less woofy.

The secong giutar is a liitle warmer, the bass is a bit more pronounced , the sustain a little shorter.

I'm having a stab in the dark and guessing that maybe the second guitar has heavier strings , or the bridge/ bridge plate are a little denser.

My preference is def the First guitar , but they both sound great to me . if I heard the second one in Isolation I would stuggle to make any of those observations.

anyway my Very Humble Opinion.

Cheers,
Paul .

User avatar
Trevor Gore
Blackwood
Posts: 1464
Joined: Mon Jun 20, 2011 8:11 pm

Re: "The Shed" guitar

Post by Trevor Gore » Sun Dec 04, 2011 10:38 pm

Thanks Paul. There's no wrong answers here. What you hear is what you hear! One of my early learnings was that there doesn't seem to be any such thing as "normal" hearing; another of the things that makes this game so hard (and so interesting...!)

Anyone else?

User avatar
ozziebluesman
Blackwood
Posts: 1412
Joined: Wed Oct 10, 2007 9:12 am
Location: Townsville
Contact:

Re: "The Shed" guitar

Post by ozziebluesman » Sun Dec 04, 2011 11:08 pm

Ok, to me guitar two has a fatter, more midrange dominated tone than the first guitar. Both great sounds and very sweetly played. Sometimes a higher action will give a guitar more volume and fuller tone. That's just a guess on my behalf of why they have different tones. Pity we can't hear them both in concert and a level playing field. Are they identical string gauge and brand?

Cheers

Alan
"Play to express, not to impress"

Alan Hamley

http://www.hamleyfineguitars.com/

MBP
Blackwood
Posts: 181
Joined: Sat Aug 20, 2011 3:48 pm

Re: "The Shed" guitar

Post by MBP » Mon Dec 05, 2011 11:19 am

How come it has nothing to do with B&S? :?:

Perhaps its the player, maybe the the distance from mic etc
thanks,
Ro

Post Reply

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 6 guests