neck shaping, sanding.

liam_fnq · Post by **liam_fnq** » Mon Jun 29, 2009 7:02 pm

hi to all, its come time for the sanding stage of the neck of the first build. this building bug has certainly taken a beating with the thought of sanding (i hate sanding). did i mention how much sanding sucks? any tips on making the sanding of the volute, heel and other tricky parts a little less painful would be much appreciated.

Kim · Post by **Kim** » Mon Jun 29, 2009 7:35 pm

I use a good sharp chisel to take the transitions into the shaft and to establish the cheeks of the heel. I refine with a sharp scraper and sandpaper and use a sharp chisel, japanese saw rasp, a sharp 12mm Ibex plane and sandpaper to shape the shaft and blend everything in. Doing things this way creates minimal dust.

It does seem to be a daunting task when ur standing back looking at the neck blank with a chisel in ur hand, but it seems to go quite easy once you make a start and is a most enjoyable and satisfying part of the build. If you feel a little intimidated, glue up some radiata pine blanks and have a go. You will soon realise it ain't that hard.

Did you notice the word 'sharp'?

Cheers and good luck.

Kim

pjpalfi · Post by **pjpalfi** » Mon Jun 29, 2009 8:45 pm

I've just completed the neck on my first build & am really happy with the results. Of course with absolutely no prior woodworking experience, you're talking to a bloody expert here!
I used a cheap Bunnings rasp & small plane - rasped the head & heel ends roughly to shape, then planed out between.]
If you have a truss rod in there, make sure you check regularly while you are rasping away!
For the "smiley" volute I used a really good (& expensive) curved chisel - absolutely couldn't have done it without this tool.
I know sanding sucks, but you have to take the time to do it properly. Put it away & come back tomorrow if you are frustrated.
Just putting an oil/wax finish on mine.
good luck,
PJ

obmit · Post by **obmit** » Mon Jun 29, 2009 9:21 pm

Sanding sucks but once you understand it, it becomes fun as you see the great finish you are producing.

Tip: Make sure your using the correct grits from start to finish.

I use Aluminum oxide papers and these make good work of sanding.

Good tip that walk away when frustrated

Cheers

Tim

I use a linisher, rasp plane, various files, chisels and sand paper to shape my tiny Uke necks.

kiwigeo · Post by **kiwigeo** » Mon Jun 29, 2009 9:37 pm

Shaping necks and heel blocks is made easier if you work with facets. Run lines down your neck outlining the facets and spokeshave to same. See Campiano and Natelsons book for carving a heel block using facets.

As far as rasps go......I use a Dragon brand rasp with randomly cut teeth (available from Stewmac). On the neck I use a spokeshave and then finish off with a length of 80 and then 120 grit sandpaper used shoe shine style across the neck.

J.F. Custom · Post by **J.F. Custom** » Mon Jun 29, 2009 10:34 pm

kiwigeo wrote:Shaping necks and heel blocks is made easier if you work with facets. Run lines down your neck outlining the facets and spokeshave to same...

This is how I learned to do it all those years ago - it's good advice and gives accurate controllable results.

I use a combo of spokeshaves, files, carving chisels, rasps, rifflers, scrapers and sandpaper. The exact combo and particular sizes of each tool depends on the instrument being crafted.

As far as 'rasps or surforms' go, I use the Microplane range from USA. If you haven't tried one, I highly recommend them. I used to use a Stanley surform when I first started for initial roughing out - what a difference the Microplanes make! They cut faster, easier and leave a much smoother finish then their similar counterparts. Get one! Note that the small round ones are quite fragile and care must be taken in use.

All this said however, it sounds as though you are passed all the profiling stages and only need to 'clean up' the surface. Sandpaper will take a lot of time if you are going from too coarse a surface to start with. If you have deeper gouges still or uneven surfaces, scrapers are very useful to reduce this to finer finish quickly, without risk.

Once on to sandpaper, these are the only 'tips' I can think of currently. You can 'spot' sand a particular bump etc by laying some cloth or paper backed sandpaper over the area and placing a finger on the 'spot'. Then with your other hand, pull/slide the sandpaper beneath your finger held on the offending area to level it without affecting the surrounding surface - if this makes sense. Try rolling your sandpaper into various diameter circles/ovals to make it easier to sand those curvy volutes or wrap the sandpaper around a form such as dowel to get into the flow of shapes.

Patience is the key though - as it is with all aspects of guitar making. You can't rush this or any other step. As mentioned previously, if you are getting frustrated, walk away and come back later.

Good luck,

Jeremy

Bob Connor · Post by **Bob Connor** » Mon Jun 29, 2009 10:48 pm

This is my weapon of choice for necks.

Takes about 20 minutes.

I've got an angle grinder with an Arbortech Pro-4 Woodcarver blade on it that I'll try at some stage as well. I usually reserve that for archtop mandos but it should work just as well for necks

J.F. Custom · Post by **J.F. Custom** » Mon Jun 29, 2009 11:01 pm

Strewth Bob!! That's a serious bit of kit for a neck

Not sure if I should have you arrested for assaulting and abusing an otherwise fine piece of guitar timber; or if I should congratulate you on your evident dexterity!

If I was to take to a neck with that... lets just say it would be 'sculptural' at best...

Do you carve your archtop backs with a chainsaw and clean up with the leaf blower in reverse mulching mode too?

Bob Connor · Post by **Bob Connor** » Mon Jun 29, 2009 11:24 pm

J.F. Custom wrote:Do you carve your archtop backs with a chainsaw and clean up with the leaf blower in reverse mulching mode too?

Just about. That's what the Arbortech and angle grinder are for. It's virtually a chainsaw. Makes me a bit nervous using it actually. But it's quick and quite accurate if you use a light touch.

Graham MacDonald uses the same as does Mario Proulx (Canadian Luthier) except his is called a Lancelot.

This is what Mario's Lancelot looks like.

J.F. Custom · Post by **J.F. Custom** » Tue Jun 30, 2009 7:34 am

I should just clarify - I am joking

I am quite familiar with both the individual Arbortech blades and complete grinder/carver set ups they have. I know of several luthiers who rough out their archtops in a similar manner to you Bob.

They certainly make quick work of it, should you have steady hands and nerves to match.

Cheers,

Jeremy.

graham mcdonald · Post by **graham mcdonald** » Tue Jun 30, 2009 8:10 am

The best description of using an Arbortech for roughing out carved tops and backs to treat it like "petting a Doberman"

cheers

Nick · Post by **Nick** » Tue Jun 30, 2009 8:12 am

J.F. Custom wrote:They certainly make quick work of it, should you have steady hands and nerves to match.

And a large pair of brass ones! That thing looks like it could fell a tree in a flash, so if it ever ran rampant over an archtop...

I'm more of your average chicken variety and rough shape with bandsaw and rasp

Bob Connor · Post by **Bob Connor** » Tue Jun 30, 2009 8:39 am

I might add that I do finish up with rasps and files before grabbing the sandpaper.

These tools really are for hogging of a heap of wood in the initial stages.

Dominic · Post by **Dominic** » Tue Jun 30, 2009 6:15 pm

Hey, I have been using thin 30-40mm wide strips for sanding the curves around the heal and headstock and the shaft.

Use good quality cloth backed 60 grit as paper will rip. I get the blue cloth backed stuff from Bunnings, lasts for ages and is very sharp. All other papers are rubbish by comparison.

Stretch it out between your hands and work the area like shining shoes. If you want to focus on one small area pull it tighter.

No block you come up with can conform to the complex shapes in the heal but the sanding strip can. Use wider bits to run across grain on the neck then up and down the shaft to even out the lumps and sanding marks.

These are similar sanding techniques I used when making surfboards and found it easy to cross over. I love shaping the neck. It is a very intimate part of the guitar.
Here is a neck I am finishing now with my neck sanding strip. Just needs a final sand.
Dom

Localele · Post by **Localele** » Tue Jun 30, 2009 6:45 pm

Here is another version of Bob's rasp. This one is cordless and much more refined.Sanding belt is a little slack for curves and can be tightened with a finger for more control.Great on cabriolet legs and guitar necks.I use one with 80 grit and one with 120 grit.

And speaking of shaping surfboards Dom, I've got a couple of hollow bodies on the go at the moment.Going to be skinned with Paulownia and no Glass.The almost green surfboard.

J.F. Custom · Post by **J.F. Custom** » Tue Jun 30, 2009 7:11 pm

Hey Micheal,

Nice sanding sticks! A good way to achieve gentle flex in the paper.

Also the surfboards are looking great

Are they for riding the next flood out of town?

Jeremy.

liam_fnq · Post by **liam_fnq** » Tue Jun 30, 2009 7:23 pm

micheal those sanding sticks are genius. do i dare to dream that blisters could be a thing of the past?

Allen · Post by **Allen** » Wed Jul 01, 2009 6:07 pm

I saw Micheal's when I was at his place back in March. I came home and made one for myself right away, and it works an absolute charm on necks. I had a picture all set to go, but waited to see if Micheal would let you all into his brilliance.

I even made mine out of camphor laural in honor of the man that gave me the inspiration.

Localele · Post by **Localele** » Wed Jul 01, 2009 7:34 pm

Cheeky Bastard ,Have to be more careful who gets into the shed.

Allen · Post by **Allen** » Wed Jul 01, 2009 7:59 pm

Kim · Post by **Kim** » Wed Jul 01, 2009 9:16 pm

Brilliant Michael, both the sanding sticks and that freak'in board.

Cheres

Kim

Localele · Post by **Localele** » Thu Jul 02, 2009 5:31 am

Heres one I pepared earlier Kim.Got 4mm ply on top and 3mm ply bottom.No solid timber for the rails in this photo.

PHANTOM · Post by **PHANTOM** » Thu Jul 02, 2009 8:21 am

That board frame looks like your building the endevour.

Bob Connor · Post by **Bob Connor** » Thu Jul 02, 2009 8:25 am

Localele wrote:Heres one I pepared earlier Kim.Got 4mm ply on top and 3mm ply bottom.No solid timber for the rails in this photo.

Which end does the neck go?

Localele · Post by **Localele** » Thu Jul 02, 2009 6:04 pm

Neck goes at the far end where it is squared off a bit.

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neck shaping, sanding.

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