Binding problem

[James Mc]

Hi All
I’m about to hit a hurdle that I’m not sure how to overcome short of weakening and buying more power tools. I’ve been trying to avoid power tools as much as possible, mostly because I hate the noise, but I also enjoy the challenge of doing without them, it’s good therapy… (newly reformed smoker). The only concession I’ve made to this so far has been to send timber down to Barry at Woodstone and have it sliced at 4mm. He did a fantastic job, it cost out about the same with postage as when I had some cut locally and he recovered almost twice as many sets as I got from the local timber workshop, which cut them at 6mm thick when I asked for 4mm. Blatant plug but the guy is a gem and wonderfully helpful.

Back to the problem… In the next week or so I should have my sides bent and be about ready to start assembly, the problem is I haven’t thought of a good way to notch out the corners for the bindings. The only idea that jumps out at me is to cut and shape the top back and sides near to the size the would be after they had been routed out and glue them back from the edge of the lining (see pic). Then I could notch a scraper to the profile I need and use it to clean it up and remove the corner of the lining.

So, is there a better or easier way short of buying a trimmer or router? What problems am I going to hit doing it this way?

Any thoughts and suggestions would be greatly appreciated.



Cheers
James

[Kim]

James,

Forget trying to glue the top and back in the right place to take the binding, it would drive you nuts trying to line up so many curved edges. Just get ur self a Schneider gramil from LMI and cut the ledge.

With a light touch to start the cut (remember that when you go to use the tool, it is very important) patience, and a good sharp chisel, this tool will allow you to cut the ledge for your binding and perfling just fine.

http://www.lmii.com/CartTwo/thirdproduc ... der+Gramil

Cheers

Kim

[Bob Connor]

You're probably better off buying a grammil and doing it with that and a chisel James.

Colin Symonds does it that way and I'm sure he'll chime in when he sees this. He's certainly the man to ask for advice on how to use them.

I would imagine that it would be nigh on impossible to precut the top and sides to leave a consistent cheannel for your bindings.

Aust Luthier Supplies sell grammils for around $40.

Here's a link

http://luthierssupplies.com.au/index.php?cPath=162_335

Edit. Set that bloody camera up Kim

[Paul B]

I've also bought wood from Barry, actually quite a bit of wood, and I give him the thumbs up too. Great bloke.

Don't have much to add on your question tho.

[Lillian]

Buy or make a gramil. Even if you were routing out the ledges its still a good idea to score them with a gramil first before routing to lessen the chances of tearout. I have the LMI version and I really like it. There is a heft to it that seems to help keep things balanced. If you check the archives at the OLF you'll find several examples. Their search engine isn't the greatest, so if you can't find what you are looking for send a PM. I think I have a few of them bookmarked.

[sebastiaan56]

Another power toll hater! And I thought I was alone in my neurosis,

Wot they all said, works for me. Keep the blade sharp! the points wear very quickly,

[James Mc]

Thanks for the help everyone. I wasn't looking forward to trying to line it all up and glue it in the time you have to work with using hide glue. A binding cutter by Ibex it is (don't know how I missed it when I did a google search on the subject).

Cheers

[Craig]

This is the type of purfling cutter I use James. (Sloane) . These are available at Carba-tec .

The blade is fully adjustable for depth and width of cut. They come with left and right beveled blades . These must be kept very sharp.

When making your first pass with it , let the weight of the tool itself score the first line . Don't be tempted to add a pound or two . You can gradually increase the depth of cut once the scored line is established. Keep the tool perfectly upright ,in line with your sides. It goes faster than you would probably think and is a must for cutaways and tighter type bends, ( particularly when doing the back ledges ) ,even if you do have a router type set-up.

I really enjoy using it actually ,and end up with a nice crisp edge

Happy cutting !

[Kim]

To avoid confusion, Sloan and Ibex are the same thing.

[Colin S]

As Bob said I often cut my binding and purfling channels by hand, using a gramil and chisels. Most of the time now though I have to admit to using a William's jig with Dave White's modification, but I do have a panchant for hand building.

I used to use the Sloan type of gramil, but switched to the one from LMI and I believe it is far superior for guitar use. The Sloan type is really designed more for cutting the groove for violin purfling wheras the LMI is made with guitars in mind.



As you can see the LMI cutter can be used in various ways. For cutting on the side of the guitar it can be set up as shown so that only a small length of the guide runs on the top so that it is not affected by the dome. But when cutting a line on the top or back it can be turned round so that a longer section rides alone the sides for better control. It can also be turned round so that for the convex sections of the side the flat runs along it and for the waist the rounded side. One thing to watch with these cutters is that the bevel on the blade is always on the waste side of the cut.

Take very light cuts at first. Clean up is with chisels. Go slow and take your time. I find that I can cut the binding channels with this nearly as quickly as I can with a jig and laminate trimmer, but even if I'm using the trimmer I always define the cuts with the gramil first especially on Cedar or redwood tops, far reduces the risk of tearout.

Colin

[kiwigeo]

I run an LMI Schneider Gramil around my backs/tops prior to routing the channels....gives a much cleaner cut.

Its a nice little tool indeed.

Cheers Martin

[matthew]

When I'm cutting purfling on my basses I do what most violinmakers do and use the "gramil" or whatever you wanna call it just as a marker. I use it to scribe the line all around the edge, then change to a nice sharp knife to deepen each of the cuts. I find that trying to cut the whole depth of the channel with the marking gauge (which is in fact what both instruments mentioned are, i think) is counterproductive because you have to keep thinking about the contact with the side. If you use a knife you just follow the scored line.

[Sam Price]

I build at home in a workshop; powertools are used sparingly with respect to my family's desire for peace and quiet. Therefore most of the processes are undertaken by hand tools.

Therefore, I have built three guitars using a Sloane for the purfling & binding. Sharpness of the blade is absolutely vital; you can't afford any slipping from much pushing pressure in trying to get a decent cut with blunt blades.

If you go slow, and make sure the Sloane is as vertical or horizontal as possible depending on what you are cutting, you can get a very neat channel.

Colin is right in saying that it's a little more fiddly than the Gramil. I have been meaning to get a gramil for a while. I'm off now to buy one.