Truss rod bulk buy

[demonx]

With my current supplier of truss rods having discontinued their older range, introducing a new product at an inflated price, add to this the drop in the Aussie dollar making imports 30% more expensive, plus very expensive USA to Aust freight (a couple hundred every time I order a bundle of truss rods) and the lack of other truss rods in the size I use available on the market at a quality I desire, I have decided to contract an engineering firm to make me my own range of truss rods.

They will be based on the previous Allied Luthierie rods we all know and love, however I'm hoping to make the quality a better and add a metric hex as opposed to the imperial.

Obviously I'll be needing to buy them in the hundreds, at the moment I am looking at two sizes, a baritone guitar length for myself and an acoustic length if you guys would also like to be involved in the process.

At this stage I don't have a price, but if it's not "dirt cheap" it won't be happening. The postage will be local thus additional savings there as well as the rods themselves being much cheaper, I'm thinking it'll work out being well under half what I'm currently paying. It should work out well for everyone.

What I am posting on the forum for is to ask people to discuss what length is required as a across the board standard for acoustic, at the moment I am looking at the following lengths:

Acoustic - 330mm from end to end including nut.
Baritone - 480mm from end to end including nut.

There may be room for special lengths to be made in smaller batches if you require, but it would have to be part of the large bulk batch, so pre order would be required.

Ok, I'm keen to hear your thoughts!

[Mark McLean]

Hi Allan
I am down to the last couple from the last group buy that we did from Allied a few years ago. I don't use many, so I would only by in for maybe 10. I don't know if that few is worth your while? Regarding size - I make steel string acoustics and the ones I got last time were 2 different lengths, intended for either 12-fret or 14-fret necks. They were about 360mm and 390mm respectively, if you include the adjusting nut, or 30mm shorter for the steel bar (see the picture below).
cheers
Mark

[kiwigeo]

Most of mine are same size as in Marks post.

[demonx]

I made this post before the metal fab guys had returned full quotes, in a nut shell - it's possible, but if I only buy a hundred they're about $50ea (my cost), to get them down to a price I can resell and make it worth while I'd need to be buying into the thousands, now I know my own personal use I can buy a hundred and know they'll get used, but ordering a thousand, well that's taking it a bit too far.

Im now looking at other options.

[kiwigeo]

I made this post before the metal fab guys had returned full quotes, in a nut shell - it's possible, but if I only buy a hundred they're about $50ea (my cost), to get them down to a price I can resell and make it worth while I'd need to be buying into the thousands, now I know my own personal use I can buy a hundred and know they'll get used, but ordering a thousand, well that's taking it a bit too far.

Im now looking at other options.

Looks like you're going to be struggling to beat LMI's prices even with freight costs factored in. A bugger as Id love to support an Aussie business.....id even do so if the rods were only slightly more expensive than LMI's.

[demonx]

Looks like you're going to be struggling to beat LMI's prices even with freight costs factored in. A bugger as Id love to support an Aussie business.....id even do so if the rods were only slightly more expensive than LMI's.

I've bought a few rods to try from LMI, not impressed at all. That and they don't have the size I use even if the quality was high.

[routout]

I have made this type of rod before ,If I can get the cap head adjustment end I would be rite.

[demonx]

I have made this type of rod before, If I can get the cap head adjustment end I would be rite.

AU$5ea including freight from LMI if you buy heaps, but that's not stainless like I'm wanting.

You can buy the nut ends (fender call them bullets) pretty much anywhere, however they're the bulky ones (they're also cheaper) and not the slimline ones that I insist on. There is a difference.

I prefer the slimline nuts so that you are removing minimal timber at one of the weakest points of the guitar. The nut should (for this style) be slimmer than the 6.35mm rod, I think the nut is around 5mm +- wide.

Also, most people don't realise there are two different threads on these Allied style rods, which changes the way it adjusts. The front thread and rear thread turn at different speeds. Did you do this when you made yours?

[Mark McLean]

Someone is posting on OLF (http://luthiersforum.com/forum/viewtopi ... 01&t=46987) and MIMF (http://www.mimf.com/phpbb/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=4239) looking for interest in a group buy of 1000 truss rods. He is talking about a unit cost of 50 cents! But he has in mind a specific type of single action truss rod - which sounds different from your requirements. It might be worth seeing if your needs could converge?
Mark

[routout]

Yes the thread should be a left and right 6 mm x 1mm pitch thread ,the reason they look different is the left hand thread has a deceptive lead angle it's like an illusion maybe there is some deceptive sales marketing .Stainless is a good material but you must use anti seize on all the threads or it will bind and lock up if you are not careful .

[demonx]

he has in mind a specific type of single action truss rod - which sounds different from your requirements.
Mark

Why would someone even use a rod like that these days? The 1950's is over!

[demonx]

Yes the thread should be a left and right 6 mm x 1mm pitch thread ,the reason they look different is the left hand thread has a deceptive lead angle it's like an illusion maybe there is some deceptive sales marketing .Stainless is a good material but you must use anti seize on all the threads or it will bind and lock up if you are not careful .

On some - but not the rods I'm talking about - it is how I wrote earlier. Both threads facing the same way but different thread gauge. It allows for micro adjustments as opposed to cheap rods where you turn the nut once and it moves a mile!

Cheap truss rods might work fine in basic instruments, but where you have modern electric guitarists wanting to set up their guitar with action so low it'll hold a piece of paper, you need a high quality truss rod to be able to "fine tune" and adjust your relief to complement really good fretwork.

EDIT: It will however depend which and how old the Allied rods are people have bought, as over the years I've been using them they have changed their design several times, making a minor improvement each time

[routout]

I understand they have used a finer right hand thread ,if you have both right hand then it cant bend in either direction when welded to the flat bar(if you get a bolt and put two nuts on it and hold the nuts separated between thumb and forefinger as if it were welded the bolt will just screw through has to be a left hand thread there )

[demonx]

I understand they have used a finer right hand thread ,if you have both right hand then it cant bend in either direction when welded to the flat bar(if you get a bolt and put two nuts on it and hold the nuts separated between thumb and forefinger as if it were welded the bolt will just screw through has to be a left hand thread there )

You're completely missing the point and your example proves as such, they are two different threads which means they spin at two different speeds - which then causes a reaction. You cannot simulate this with a bolt!

[routout]

Oh I thought it was a two way truss rod..

[demonx]

Oh I thought it was a two way truss rod..

I think I'll give up trying to explain it to you. It IS a two way rod, even if both threads are spinning the same direction if they are spinning at two different speeds due to one being a wider thread gauge to the other and divided by the welded rod. It will then flex two ways.

Think about it, if you have two cars moving in the same direction, but the one behind is moving faster, what happens? According to your two nuts on a bolt logic, nothing, they move along happily, according to what I'm trying to explain, one crashes up the arse of the other. Now, if this analogy is put into truss rod design, the two cars (aka blocks) cannot hit each other as they have a welded bar across the top, which then has to bend.

I didn't think it was too hard to understand.

[routout]

It's not hard to understand I am not speaking from a Master Luthiers nor matriarchs point of view , mechanically it is bound to fail from metal fatigue and most certainly will in stainless. One thread working against the other will strip fixed inside a neck the force needed to generate movement will eventually cause failure .

[demonx]

No, it will always take the path of least resistance, which over the longer span is to bend. My brother is the engineer, not I, he'd be able to work out the exact data on what will do what, I have no desire to know the digits, I'm more interested in the real life actions!

The shorter the rod, the more pressure on the threads.

Their acoustic rods have opposing threads like the other brands as do their standard length electric rods.

Their longer baritone rods (which we're discussing) have the same direction threads as do their bass guitar rods.

I have all these in stock and were inspecting them earlier. Out of curiosity I also looked at the Allparts rods I have here, they have opposing threads, BUT, they are standard length rods as they don't make baritone rods.

I'm curious now, if the new redesigned and up priced allied rods are the same. I have some in order, guess I'll find out.

[kiwigeo]

I've just had a close look at the LMI two way rods in my workshop and the thread pitch is definitely different at each end...coarser at nut end. When the adjustment shaft is turned the different threaded ends are also definitely moving different distances...they have to be or the upper bar wouldn't flex as it does.

[vandenboom]

Hi guys. Been off the air for quite a while.
Starting a new build.
Came across this old post when searching for posdible australian truss rod supplier.
Has anybody checked these out?

https://www.guitaraust.com.au/neck/trus ... srods.html
Thnx. Frank

[vandenboom]

...or alternatively, this aust luth supplier product. Reasonably priced at $23

https://luthiersupplies.com.au/welded-2 ... tic-guitar

[blackalex1952]

When you talk about different threads on a truss rod, are we talking pitch, ie the pitch of each nut's thread on the two ends of the rod?

[kiwigeo]

When you talk about different threads on a truss rod, are we talking pitch, ie the pitch of each nut's thread on the two ends of the rod?

Pitch is distance between threads. This is an old topic and my truss rods are all packed away at present with the rest of the work shop.