how to bend silver ash?

[GregL]

Hi,

I'm having no luck trying to bend silver ash (flindersia schottiana) bindings. Does anyone have any ideas?
(I have tried bending on a form with a heat blanket, and using an Ibex-style stewmac bending iron, both dry and damp. It gets to about 10 degrees bend and then breaks! 6mm x 2mm. For reference I successfully bent some rather curly Blackwood binding (same size) on the bending iron (so I am capable of doing a bend!))

Thanks,
GregL.

[56nortondomy]

Greg you could soak the bindings in water with some fabric softener for a while maybe 30 or 40 min. and then try bending.
Wayne

[Bob Connor]

Wrap the four bindings completely in blue painters tape before putting them on the bending form.

Regards

[GregL]

Hi,

Thanks Wayne - I just happen to have some fabric softener in the laundry cupboard so I'll try that tomorrow.
Thanks Bob - I'll get some blue painters tape from Bunnings tomorrow and give it a try.

Thanks,
GregL.

[kiwigeo]

If that doesn't work take the bindings along to the ATO......they can make ANYTHING bend.

[Trevor Gore]

There are two types of silver ash. One bends the other doesn't. The one that doesn't bend has a yellow tinge to it and smells stronger than the one that does, which is more silvery. If you are certain that the one you have is f. schottiana, the one that bends must be f. bourjotiana. The one that bends bends more easily than blackwood, more like European ash. The one that doesn't just snaps unless you're really, really careful. Then it just cracks.

[GregL]

Hi Trevor,

No, I'm not certain it is f. schottiana, and your description of the non-bending (I encountered both snapping and cracking) makes me wonder if I do indeed have the "wrong" silver ash! I'll try the tips provided by Wayne and Bob, and report back.

Thanks,
GregL.

[GregL]

Hi,

First report:
I tried using fabric softener. I stood the end of the test binding strip into an almost full bottle of fabric softener (maybe 20cm deep) for 1 hour. Then bent it on the Ibex-style bending iron at approx 200C. I *just* managed to carefully bend it to the test radius (approx 50cm) without cracks or breaks - better than before!
Next test will be wrapping in blue painters tape.

Thanks,
GregL.

[56nortondomy]

Good luck Greg, I hope you do it. Wayne

[GregL]

Hi,

Next test - I acquired a bottle of Veneer Softener, so I decided to test that before I test the blue painters tape (next test).
Same results as fabric softener! I stood the end of the test binding strip into a full bottle of veneer softener (20cm deep) for 1 hour. Then bent it on the Ibex-style bending iron at approx 200C. I *just* managed to carefully bend it to the test radius (approx 50cm) - one crack early on but then I went more carefully then no more cracks or breaks.
So, better than no treatment, but no better than (much cheaper) fabric softener. Still barely adequate - and I don't feel that "relaxation" that I felt when test bending (successfully) some curly blackwood bindings.

(I think it's the "no-bend" silver ash species Trevor!)

Thanks,
GregL.

[kiwigeo]

Greg, do you have a bending slat around the outside of the binding while bending? I have a thin stainless steel slat that I use for hand bending bindings.

[GregL]

Hi Martin,

I have not been using any slat when hand bending. I have 2 stainless steel slats that I "sandwich" wood between when using a heat blanket on a form, also have a roll of aluminium flashing I have used, but nothing for hand bending - I'll try that too. Thanks for the tip!

Thanks,
GregL.

[curly]

Southern Silver Ash , Flindersia schottiana is increasingly hard to come by . It is definitely the superior species for strength to weight , along with bend ability . Many merchants are swapping out other blonde Flindersias from nth Qld , PNG and beyond . The stuff I have handled from PNG was coarser , interlocked and slightly soapy / greasy more like F. australis .
The Good news is that small holding plantation forestry is taking up the cause , Southern Silver Ash and a good many other old scrub timbers will be available to the species user market as the thinnings at least come on line . Cudgerie is another local name its known by .
I wish I'd held onto more of the stock I'd had . Years ago I bought a shed full of stuff from a defunct business . Mostly went into oars and paddles . A bit was ribs and gunnels for small boats , again for its ability to bend .
Pete

[TimS]

Just a question which might have already been addressed. Did you support your bindings with a slat at least on the outside? How long did you wait before bending and how much moisture in any form did you apply?

regards

Tim

[kiwigeo]

Just a question which might have already been addressed. Did you support your bindings with a slat at least on the outside? How long did you wait before bending and how much moisture in any form did you apply?

regards

Tim

Tim,

Question one already answered.....no.

[kiwigeo]

Hi Martin,

I have not been using any slat when hand bending. I have 2 stainless steel slats that I "sandwich" wood between when using a heat blanket on a form, also have a roll of aluminium flashing I have used, but nothing for hand bending - I'll try that too. Thanks for the tip!

Thanks,
GregL.

The slat on the outside of the bend is the critical one......it can hold the fibres together long enough to get the bend done.

[Trevor Gore]

Southern Silver Ash , Flindersia schottiana is increasingly hard to come by . It is definitely the superior species for strength to weight , along with bend ability...

Thanks, Pete. It looks like the real F. schottiana is the one we want.

[GregL]

Hi Tim,

Just a question which might have already been addressed. Did you support your bindings with a slat at least on the outside? How long did you wait before bending and how much moisture in any form did you apply?
Tim

As Martin said, no outside slat used (so far).
I bent immediately after I removed the binding from the softener (in these tests).
Only the moisture in the softener - no additional moisture.

Thanks,
GregL.

[GregL]

Hi,

Next test: I tried wrapping the silver ash binding in blue painters tape, as previously suggested by Bob. And, in true non-scientific fashion, I changed the testing method! This time I wrapped the binding in blue painters tape then tried to bend it on a form using a heat blanket and metal backing (aluminium flashing). The "bending sandwich" was flashing, wrapped binding, flashing, heat blanket, flashing. I placed the "sandwich" on the bending form, heated the blanket to approx 170C, then slowly applied bending pressure (screwed down a waist caul). Result: still no luck. It bent a little but then cracked and broke.
I am giving up and getting some more bindings cut using proven flindersia schottiana and maybe something else like hoop pine (araucaria cunninghamii).

Thanks,
GregL.