Can you believe it?

[sebastiaan56]

http://abcnews.go.com/print?id=4583256 Now that is micro management!! Makes them all war criminals as far I can tell. I need to declare that I am a 20 odd year member of Amnesty International so Im a bit sensitive to overt abuse of human rights. From an Aussie POV makes me wonder about David Hicks all over again.

[Hesh1956]

I can relate.....

I read a story here about the appointed military officer who is tasked with representing the so-called Al Queida number 3 that we have in custody at a water park..... The lawyer is saying that there is no way that his client can get a fair trial in a military tribunal AND that testimony, obtained by water boarding, is not being shared with defense council.......

To many of us here in the states 9/11 made us lose a great deal, the human cost, the human cost, and the damage to the economy.

But IMHO the real loss that we suffered in the States was self inflicted. It is how we reacted post 9/11 seemingly suspending our constitution in some respects with wire tapping US citizens within the continental US, torture, denial of due process in the legal system, and the use of what happened in a political manner to make us afraid going forward......

Seemingly every time Bush's popularity declined (and that happened VERY often....) he would issue an elevated threat alert for terrorism. The idea was that if we are kept afraid we would accept his over reactions and violations of our laws..... And he was right - we did for the most part.

These people, many of my leaders, broke the law over and over again..... More importantly we let them do it...... And even more importantly - the objective of terror is not so much to kill everyone - it is to create a state of fear as pay back in a group/population for some perceived wrong doing......

9/11 created a state of fear - The Bush administration perpetuated this state of fear playing directly into the hands of the terrorists..... Shameful, not smart, and in this case they broke the very laws that they are sworn to uphold.

Not to mention Iraq which is little more than a cold-cocked drunk that was knocked off a bar stool getting up off the floor with the idea that he has to hit someone back, anyone, and so we did........ It's a 3 trillion dollar, 4,000 plus US lives, 100,000 plus other lives poke in the WRONG direction......

Unbelievable........

Lastly I am no stranger to terrorism having lived in a state where terrorism was more commonplace than anywhere else in the world...... I appreciate that the leadership and some individuals have to operate in the dark at times, even break the law, in the interest of the greater good.....

Am I defending torture - perhaps but the point was that it was against our laws at the time. My other point is that if dark means are called for the very fact that we have some of these people in custody should have never come to light for political - we are accomplishing something..... reasons and the perpetrators should have never seen the light of day again. Take that with any meaning that you wish.......

Instead we tell the world we have them in custody, torture them, even video tape it.... (amazing in the stupidity....) and then deny them due process. We use the military where the justice system should have had jurisdiction, and we lie to the people, spy on the people, and provide the terrorists with exactly what they wanted, the ultimate prize, a fearful population that now has serious questions as to if they/we can trust our leaders........

Sorry for the rant - it's a personal issue with me.......