Fretboard Inlay

[Lex]

Hi All,
I will be inlaying fret markers soon and was thinking about using a simple 6mm mop dot, but then inlaying a 4mm abalone dot into the mop

I was wondering if someone here may save me some experimental time and tell me if I can just inlay the MOP and then simply drill a 4mm hole in that for the Abalone or will the drill shatter the MOP ? is there a better procedure for this ? Tricks ,advice ?

Thanks

Tod G

[simso]

It will shatter

[68matts]

Not exactly what you want to do Todd but this worked fine for me.

[kiwigeo]

4mm dot in a 6mm dot...1mm to play with each side.

[Nick]

It's not impossible but tricky! You would need a bonded diamond drill (like this, these are just as an example & American so in Imperial sizing but no doubt available somewhere in metric). As Steve said, a conventional drill will shatter the thin shell due to the way they are sharpened and do their work. The diamond bonded drills need to be flooded with water whilst cutting A; to reduce heat build up and B; to flush out the waste shell and discarded diamond from the cut (these are designed such that the bonding material holds the diamond grit until it becomes dull and heats up, the bond lets go, the dull diamond comes off exposing a new piece of sharp diamond underneath), so probably couldn't be drilled while in the fretboard (the wood would swell and break the thin 1mm shell left behind, not to mention you now have a wet piece of wood that you've painstakingly taken steps to ensure is kept reasonably dry!) so I would approach it by gluing it to a backing board, I would probably use hot melt glue as it can be resoftened with heat again after and also the Mop can be 'embedded' in a big enough dollop of it (which would help support the sides of the thin shell until the core can be glued in), drill the core out, glue the central dot in with CA then as I just said, reheat the glue and carefully prise or cut the combo-dot off/out of the glue, any residual (and rehardened) glue can be sanded/filed off the new dot. It would also need to be done in some sort of mill drill though as the diamond drill has no pilot so unless you had an accurate way of holding it centrally, the chances of drilling the middle out off centre would be high!

[simso]

The thing with pearl is it needs to be approached in a manner of grinding the material away rather than cutting or drilling.

Some of us can do it if you get stuck, what state are you in

[kiwigeo]

Don't muck around....get to work with one of these babies. Its an 12-1/4" PDC bit....cuts through rock like it's butter

759456e89fd0fcaec589b69772652e1a.jpg (146.47 KiB) Viewed 26401 times

[Lex]

Thanks for the replies , I think I need to come up with another idea maybe a brass tube as the outer.

I was just looking at ways to make the ab stand out more against a rosewood fretboard, thanks again for the detailed response.

Marty, could you get me one of those bits ,4mm please

Cheers and thanks

Tod G

[blackalex1952]

Nick! What a great mind you have!
Todd, a contrasting wooden inlay around the MOP would be lovely and easy.Eg: maple veneer inlayed first into ebony, then Pau abalone dot inlayed into that.I have used CA glue on veneer to bind the grain before drilling and cutting/sanding/filing-Ross

[Lex]

Nick! What a great mind you have!
Todd, a contrasting wooden inlay around the MOP would be lovely and easy.Eg: maple veneer inlayed first into ebony, then Pau abalone dot inlayed into that.I have used CA glue on veneer to bind the grain before drilling and cutting/sanding/filing-Ross

Yes I think that might be the way to go, a lot easier thanks for the post, I can now see Nick grinning from this side of the ditch

Cheers Tod G

[kiwigeo]

Marty, could you get me one of those bits ,4mm please

Cheers and thanks

Tod G

6" is about the smallest size these bits come in.

[Crafty Fox]

Don't muck around....get to work with one of these babies. Its an 12-1/4" PDC bit....cuts through rock like it's butter

759456e89fd0fcaec589b69772652e1a.jpg

I saw one of them on the back of a truck yesterday; looks like someone's doing some fine inlay work up in the Pilbara!

[kiwigeo]

Don't muck around....get to work with one of these babies. Its an 12-1/4" PDC bit....cuts through rock like it's butter

759456e89fd0fcaec589b69772652e1a.jpg

I saw one of them on the back of a truck yesterday; looks like someone's doing some fine inlay work up in the Pilbara!

More likely to be heading offshore to the Browse Basin.....these bits are used in the oil and gas game. The round discs do the cutting and with no moving parts these bits have a much longer life than roller cone bits.

[blackalex1952]

http://www.lmii.com/products/tools-serv ... ist-drills
BTW I work with a mate who is a driller...those other bits are for rock guitars only...and you need at least 200PSI air pressure to get them cracking!

[Nick]

Any twist drill regardless of it's point geometry will break shell with a wall thickness that thin (tiny fragments of the base material get trapped between the sides of the drill and the hole exerting pressure on the sides). The diamond bonded bits are a core style and don't exert any pressure on the sidewalls of the hole, the swarf is flushed up through the gaps between the diamond fragments on both the outer and inner surfaces. It's also an abrasive/grinding cutting action (same as Martin's big arse bit! ) rather than conventional cutting methods of drill bits as Steve commented on earlier.

those other bits are for rock guitars only.

Groans

[Mike Thomas]

It would also need to be done in some sort of mill drill though as the diamond drill has no pilot so unless you had an accurate way of holding it centrally, the chances of drilling the middle out off centre would be high!

You could probably get around this by having two bonded drill bits, one 4mm outside diameter, and one 6mm inside diameter, and an oversize piece of mop. Using a drill press you could first cut the 4mm hole, then leave the workpiece in place but change the drill bit to 6mm.

[blackalex1952]

I saw some cutting drills or bits for a dremel that cut and drill MOP somewhere. Perhaps they were Kyocera. If I remember where I will post, but suggest some google searching...I have found that the guitar and banjo inlay experts' websites, posts and suppliers in the USA are the places to look for techniques and tools. I use one of those grinding bits for Dremels that are available from chainsaw shops for the sharpening of chains to fine tune my MOP inlays before scribing them onto my fretboard or headstock.

[blackalex1952]

Here are some links I found. Check out the tutorials on this site also. The shell cutters might work, if you can work out how to ream the hole after cutting, or use a milling machine or cnc somehow...I'm no expert. I think if I wanted to try what you are suggesting that I would grind one of the aforementioned chainsaw sharpeners into a fine taper then use it to get the hole diameter to the size of the dot inlay, then taper the outside of the inner dot to make a close fit, if you get my drift...I would temporarily superglue the outer inlay to a dowel, perhaps with a hole drilled in the end to form a tube so that I could hold it neatly in one hand or in a vise in order to ream it with the tapered synthetic stone chainsaw sharpening cutter. The other suggestion I remember seeing on a jewellery makers forum was to try drill press drilling into the MOP but with the MOP temporary super glued on to a piece of hardened steel-not with a brad point bit, however. The tip of the bit hits the steel and continues no further leaving a tiny pilot hole for the bit to follow when the MOP is turned over and drilled from the other side. The concept being that the MOP won't fracture until the drill goes all the way through. I would take this with a grain of salt until I had tried it though. Not sure if it would give an accurate enough hole though, as the post related to making button holes and holes for necklace stringing etc. The other thing that occurs to me is that the drill, perhaps, should be "blunt" in the same way one would drill perspex.
http://www.precisebits.com/materials/iv ... _shell.htm
http://www.precisebits.com/products/car ... /shell.asp
Inciddentally, I think that in the tute (Zero Glue Line Inlay) on the above website the following statement is fascinating!-"The craftsmanship is so meticulous and precise that, even under magnification, no gap or glue-line can be discerned between the ivory, ebony and sandalwood inlaid into the leg of this 6,000 year old stool."
http://www.precisebits.com/tutorials/zero_glue_line.htm

[blackalex1952]

I am also wondering if laser engraving might work on mother of pearl or even for cutting MOP shapes.

[simso]

No lasers turn pearl to dust, I did a lot of experimenting on this front.

From feeds to speeds to power settings to many many destroyed pieces of pearl

I use similiar cutters to those sold by precise bits

Steve

[Lex]

Well, a lot of information here Thanks.

it's a bloody shame that Martin's PDC Drill's are not available In the required size

Blackalex1852 Thank you for all that info it's very much appreciated

Steve. I'm on the NSW mid Nth Coast. a bit far from you unfortunately, Thanks, you saved me some time and failures.

I think I might just border the abalone with a brass tube, the problem with that could be getting a tube 6mm OSD with a 4mm inside diameter

Thanks to you as well Nick and anyone else that I forgot, Cheers

Tod G

[Mike Thomas]

K & S brass tubing sold in most hobby shops comes in metric sizes. The 5mm o/d tube fits snugly into the 6mm tube, and has a 4.1mm i/d.