I'd like to try a kit

[Jedaks]

Hello all,
I'm a classical player and have an overall interest in the nylon string classical guitar, including how they are put together and how they work.

I don't think I'd like to dive in and be a luthier, but I'm considering having a go at putting a kit together like this one.

http://luthierssupplies.com.au/product_ ... cts_id=305

It seems like most of the hard parts are done and I only need to assemble and adjust, which I think is a good way to learn about how guitars work and how they are built without investing massive $$$ in tools and materials (which I wouldn't know how to use anyway).

I know very little about woodworking in general and I have no specific tools.

So, if those of you that do have knowledge would be so kind as to let me know what I would need to put together such a kit, it would help me out heaps.

Many thanks for your attention,

Joe
Maryborough, Qld

[Allen]

I suggest you have a look at some build threads to see what people are using in the way of procedures, jigs and tools. Go to the local library and take out some books on acoustic guitar building. There are some good ones, and others are crap, but at least you will become familiar with most of the procedures.

Off the top of my head you will need;

• solera/workboard
  Chisels (they need to be sharp)
  Perhaps rasp for shaping neck and heel
  Sand paper (various grits)
  Clamps
  Glue
  Fine Saw to cut braces
  Router or Gramil (for installing bindings)
  Screw Driver for tuners
  Possibly Go-Bar Deck and bars

For finish, you could go with several options. But be warned. A good finish is at least 1/3 of the build time of a complete instrument. So as this one is mostly done, you can expect to spend well more than that.

[kiwigeo]

Off the top of my head you will need;

• solera/workboard
  Chisels (they need to be sharp)
  Perhaps rasp for shaping neck and heel
  Sand paper (various grits)
  Clamps
  Glue
  Fine Saw to cut braces
  Router or Gramil (for installing bindings)
  Screw Driver for tuners
  Possibly Go-Bar Deck and bars

+1 for the above basic tool set with the addition of a decent block plane. If you can afford it a No 3 or 4 plane is also handy. The router is useful but if youre tight for cash then a gramil for binding work and a paddle pop circle cutter for rosette channel work.

[kiwigeo]

Hello all,
I'm a classical player and have an overall interest in the nylon string classical guitar, including how they are put together and how they work.

I don't think I'd like to dive in and be a luthier, but I'm considering having a go at putting a kit together like this one.

http://luthierssupplies.com.au/product_ ... cts_id=305

It seems like most of the hard parts are done and I only need to assemble and adjust, which I think is a good way to learn about how guitars work and how they are built without investing massive $$$ in tools and materials (which I wouldn't know how to use anyway).

I know very little about woodworking in general and I have no specific tools.

So, if those of you that do have knowledge would be so kind as to let me know what I would need to put together such a kit, it would help me out heaps.

Many thanks for your attention,

Joe
Maryborough, Qld

Hi Joe, the kit looks ok but I'd ditch the plastic nut and saddle and make up your own from bone. Bone blanks won't cost you the earth. See Allan's post above for basic tool kit and also review threads on this forum. Ive done a couple of classical builds....currently finishing off one at the moment.

[Allen]

Looks like the rosette is already installed, so you don't need to worry about that.

The plastic bindings are going to be easy to install in that you don't need to bend them. But I'm with Martin....we don't like plastic.

Plastic nut and saddle......nope.

I suppose you might want some fret makers of some sort. Perhaps on the face of the fret board, but certainly on the side.

So you'll need some way of drilling and installing them if you go down that route.

[Jedaks]

Thanks for the replies. It has given me a bit to ponder.

I suppose the most important thing I need is an unmolested place to work. A dedicated space and table/bench. A good book about C.G. construction also seems necessary.

Now...here is the tricky part. I'm a left handed player. I have 4 guitars and they are all built left handed by the factory.
I wonder if this is an "ambidextrous" kit with symmetrical bracing, no plane in the fingerboard etc... If so then no worries. Perhaps I should ask the manufacturer.

I would assume that a guitar kit with this much pre-fabrication already done would be lefty capable.

[kiwigeo]

Thanks for the replies. It has given me a bit to ponder.

I suppose the most important thing I need is an unmolested place to work. A dedicated space and table/bench. A good book about C.G. construction also seems necessary.

Now...here is the tricky part. I'm a left handed player. I have 4 guitars and they are all built left handed by the factory.
I wonder if this is an "ambidextrous" kit with symmetrical bracing, no plane in the fingerboard etc... If so then no worries. Perhaps I should ask the manufacturer.

I would assume that a guitar kit with this much pre-fabrication already done would be lefty capable.

If the bracing is conventional Torres style fan bracing then no real modifications needed. It only gets a bit complicated if youve got angled transverse braces or other modifications to the original Torres style bracing pattern. Fortunately bulk compensation on a classical is normally handled by moving the saddle back a few mm. However if the top of the saddle is to be filed to fine tune intonation then youll need to make allowance for that...usually the G string has the most compensation at the saddle....not a huge issue and this task will be well within your capabilities.

Books on classical guitar construction...Courtnall's book is the best Ive come across so far: http://www.amazon.com/Making-Master-Gui ... 0709048092.

Cumpiano's book is ok but its been around for a log time and in places IMHO a bit out dated.

[Allen]

One of the best books I've seen on Classical Guitars is John Bogdanovich's.

Beautifully photographed and laid out so anyone could build a top notch instrument if they followed the instructions. It's also in our local library, so may be in yours too.

[Jedaks]

Has anyone ever built a kit guitar?

Can they be made into nice sounding/playing instruments? "A silk purse from a sow's ear" so to speak? Or a nice leather purse anyway?

Or will it never be more than the sum of it's parts?

[jeffhigh]

Add to the list humidity monitoring and control unless you want to risk cracking.

[Jedaks]

Gentlemen,
this is all expert advice and I thank you.

It seems like this could be a great learning project or a just a lot of pain.

[kiwigeo]

Gentlemen,
this is all expert advice and I thank you.

It seems like this could be a great learning project or a just a lot of pain.

Usually it's both

[Allen]

If you are looking to do it for learning, enjoyment etc. then dive right in by all means. It's by far the most enjoyment I've ever had from working with wood.

But if it's a means of getting a good guitar cheap.....well, we can all tell you that ain't ever going to be the case

[seeaxe]

Hi Joe

As a leftie classical player (these days) who has built that kit you were looking at as the first one I had ever built, here's my two cents worth, for what's its worth ( about 2 cents!!).

As a long time woodworker I must admit I initially felt there was not actually much to do to assemble it, a bit like your average Airfix model plane. I promptly proved myself wrong by stuffing up quite few things so there are still plenty of challenges. The materials are OK but are a bit different to a traditional Spanish acoustic. Everything is fairly plain. I though the instructions were pretty clear, the kits comes from Germany I think. It will produce a nice guitar if well built. I was really pleased with it, as was my son who I built it for. I have since built him a second one, (guitar number 9) he still likes them both, (I'm not sure whether that means he's being polite, I got lucky with the first one or I haven't learnt anything in between the two guitars!!)

I also agree finish is surprisingly hard to get to a high standard and takes time but if you have no specific deadline then fine.

So I agree with Allan - if its just for fun, dive in. It still would be a good idea to find and talk to any local builders in your neck of the woods. There are all sorts of things that you can do by hand but the right bit of kit makes it look really professional (I'm thinking of the binding and finishing). You might be able to pay someone to do these bits for you. This can make economic sense as most of us non professional builders don't fork out for the top end tools first time round and sometimes end up unhappy with results, then buy a better tool, often still not the top end, killer gadget (you can see where this heading) . It would have cost less to pay someone with the right tool to do it first place.... sorry to labour the point but you get the idea.

However.....

If the aim of the exercise is to understand how guitars work, then I believe you will achieve much more by reading the books recommended than by building this or any kit. Building will tell you how good are your woodworking skills, patience and some other things that you might already know but not how a guitar works. A lot of the books are in the library and thus free, so before contemplating investing in any tools, I would recommend you read them and see whether you still feel you need/want to build the kit.

There are other even more detailed books that go into the physics of it all that give good technical theoretical answers, but they might not be in the library. Even so, buying them will cost you less than the basic set of tools and jigs you will need to build your first guitar. they might tell you what you want to know.

I don't think you will learn much about how a guitar works from the actual build experience, because if you are only going to build one guitar then you are not going to find out what happens if you make this or that brace a different size, soundboard thicker or thinner, etc etc.

Having said all that, the building process is good fun and probably not as hard as you think. Most people are surprised how good their first guitar is. Buying wood and tools is good fun too but be warned it can be addictive. We are obviously all hooked, one way or another. It led to me building all sorts of different guitars which I have really enjoyed, but wood work was always one of my favourite pastimes anyway so guitars were a good excuse to get in the shed and make some mess.

People on this forum were a big help to me when I was building mine, they are great.

It is pretty cool to play a guitar you have built yourself, for yourself. I play mine (guitar number eight) pretty much every day and I love it.

Good luck what ever happens
All the best
Richard

[Jedaks]

Everyone has been very generous with advice. This forum is a great resource.

I do plan to upgrade my current factory guitar one day. My playing skills have improved and I'm beginning to outgrow the guitar. However I can state that I don't intend to build that upgraded guitar myself! I just don't have the taste for fine, delicate wood work. I'm too clumsy and ham fisted.

[seeaxe]

Hi Joe,

Reading my post again, it does sound a bit negative, I didn't mean it to be, but it kind of does, sorry! I hope I didn't put you off having a go at a kit, I am just cautioning to think twice before spending a lot of money on tools.

If you are planning to build another one "one day" then a kit is a good way to start, in my opinion. I built a Stewmac dreadnought kit more or less at the same time as the classical kit, that came with better instructions (dvd) but most of the things that need guitar specific (read expensive) tools had been done. That guitar sounded pretty good to me as well.

I would also say that, unless something goes horribly wrong, any guitar you make, kitset our otherwise, will usually sound better than the average factory guitar.

All the best and good luck

[simonm]

Has anyone ever built a kit guitar?
Can they be made into nice sounding/playing instruments? "A silk purse from a sow's ear" so to speak? Or a nice leather purse anyway?
Or will it never be more than the sum of it's parts?

When I took up instrument building as a hobby for the second time after a 20 year break, I did a total of four kits. I don't remember the exact sequence - maybe 2 then from scratch then alternating …

None of the kits was quite as pre-assembled as this one. All had pre-bent sides but none had the "box" assembled. All turned out reasonably. The two from StewMac in the US, a dreadnought and a OOO were very nice. The first ones were much cheaper classicals and turned out reasonably but were too heavy. However, if I could get the same kit again I would have no qualms about using it, however I would thin down the top and braces quite a bit more. So short answer, yes you can make a decent, even quite good guitar from a kit.

However, to get close to a really top class instrument will take you years and a lot of cash. I would say 5 years or more and 10k in your favorite currency. Allen (above) puts it differently but we are singing from the same sheet. If the prime objective is to learn a bit about instruments then it is a great experience. But if you want a nicer guitar to play, spend the money upfront and spend the time playing.

When I started making classical guitars I was more interested in making than playing and got guitar lessons more to learn about guitars than to learn about music.

[Jedaks]

All very honest answers and I appreciate that very much.

I've been considering the practicality of this and I better just cool my jets. I just don't have a place to work on such a project at this time. Plus the cost of buying the tools needed would creep up the overall cost. Then there is the know-how.

Perhaps at a later time I'll be in a better position to undertake this.

Thanks to everyone for their good advice.

Joe