Paulownia Soundboard

[christian]

Hi,

I've been lurking around for last little while, just haven't had much to say lately!
I do have a query though which I think was topical a few years back. Has anyone out there used Paulownia for a guitar soundboard? I ask as I was given a nice quartered piece that will yield a few tops and I'm keen to try it out.
I see Tony Yamamoto made a prototype guitar pretty much completely out of it last year.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LrCxZ_txmRw

Cheers,

Christian.

[simso]

Its really really soft stuff, I would say softer than western red cedar.

It does not have a lot of strength either, so bracing will be important.

I have lots and lots of paulownia, we do test samples when machining bodies for people with that stuff first for approval.

It does not damage the tools and is almost as light as balsa

Steve

[Allen]

I haven't but now you have me thinking after watching that video.

Micheal Connor uses it to build surfboards. I've got some of his offcuts that I always thought it was a rather unfortunate looking wood. Light as a feather, and really tough. You'd think it would be dead easy to re-saw, but it's not at all. Long fibres that are very tenacious.

It's got huge pores, so I imagine it's going to be a pain to pore fill.

[simso]

Its actually got some really good looking grain going on,

[kpcart]

this wood is used for soundboards in Japan for the Koto, and other asian string instruments. worth experimenting with, said to be very light, but also very stiff.
it is interesting this wood like balsa, is a hardwood, and not a softwood.

[simso]

Sorry but pawlonia is actually softer than western red cedar and I think the only thing softer is balsa wood, that's how soft it is.

Regarding being a hardwood or softwood, that's purely a botanical classification of the species of trees it comes under, nothing to do with the fact of its strength.

I have probably 300 guitar sized blocks of pawlonia in our storage area.

Steve

[kiwigeo]

this wood is used for soundboards in Japan for the Koto, and other asian string instruments. worth experimenting with, said to be very light, but also very stiff.
it is interesting this wood like balsa, is a hardwood, and not a softwood.

MOE for Pawlonia is around 4.1GPa.
Sitka is 11.03GPa and Balsa is 3.71GPa

[christian]

I machined up a couple of sets and stuck them in my dry room over night.
at 4mm thick this set is 185grams.
I compared it against some WRC and it definetely isn't as stiff. But that isn't necessarily a bad thing, it taps like a gong!
The spring wood lines are really stiff it's almost like a built in bracing across the board. The summer wood is essentially dry pulp. As for softness I don't think it really matters as it will be pore filled and with modern polyurethanes it can only make it more durable.

Either way I will definitely give it a go.

Cheers,

Christian

[Dekka]

Don't forget to flame it first; the way the Japanese do their soundboards.

[simso]

For all its unknowns, it really does have some nice strong looking grain lines running through it, I see it often used for Autoharp soundboards, but they are around 7-9mm

Steve

[kpcart]

if the japanese use it for their native stringed instruments instead of their marvellous Yezo Spruce from Hokkaido, then it must have something going for it. it cant be worse then using 1mm thick spruce with carbon lined balsa bracing like aussie latticed braced classical builders use. thickness it correctly, listening to the wood, and brace it correctly, im sure it can work well.
this list is interesting.
http://www.wood-database.com/wood-artic ... est-woods/

[jeffhigh]

The other thing to consider, besides the lower stiffness, is whether it will have adequate strength to resist peeling off bridges and braces.
Even some western red cedar can be marginal.
A Japanese instrument with a highly arched soundboard and floating bridge is quite a different beast structurally to your conventional flat top acoustic or classical with a glued on bridge.

[Kamusur]

Good luck with it Christian. A mate has had few slabs outside in direct sunlight and the filthiest of the recent weather and no signs yet of cupping, cracking or warping but all he uses are back and flatsawn (he has the end grain wax sealed). I'll tell him to get the scales out and see if they are gaining weight. His buyers are using them for surfboards.

Steve

[jeffreyyong]

it works for me

[kiwigeo]

it works for me

Stop complicating the discussion Jeffrey!!

[jeffreyyong]

just for me only.....

[J.F. Custom]

I think Trevor has demonstrated that the "best" can be extracted out of any timber with careful planning and methodical work.

But I still think with it's inherent qualities, you are "starting behind the eight ball" choosing a timber like this over other alternatives. Depends on your reason and aim.

Then again, Cigar Box guitars are not known for their technically perfect concert sound... But some of the music played on them sounds great

Your aim should simply be to extract the best out of the materials you have chosen - for whatever reason you've chosen them.

The rest, is up to the musician. Great music can be played on less than perfect guitars.

Jeremy.

[kpcart]

for many years european spruce was considered the perfect wood... even other spruces were not considered. Western Red cedar then became popular, ahead of other spruces that were closer in properties to Euro Spruce. for me it has always seemed weird why the norm is this 2 contrasting woods of european spruce an the thuja named western red cedar. there are other spruce in between euro spruce and cedar in properties, or slightly outside, including engelman, caucasian, carpathian, vologda, adirondack, sitka, yezo and there are also other varieties of the Thuja besides Western Red Cedar. add to that choices in cypress and pines and other conifers (like aussie bunya, huon and king billy), all these woods work, just need different thicknessing and bracing. i am sure Paulownia can work fine as well. at 3mm thickness of paulownian probably works better and has more tap tone then a .9mm lattice braced cedar top as done by many lattice classical makers in AU.

[kiwigeo]

i am sure Paulownia can work fine as well. at 3mm thickness of paulownian probably works better and has more tap tone then a .9mm lattice braced cedar top as done by many lattice classical makers in AU.

"probably works better"......"More tap tone"...you're going to have to quantify these statements. And where did you pull the 3mm thickness figure from for the Paulownia?

[jeffhigh]

i am sure Paulownia can work fine as well. at 3mm thickness of paulownian probably works better and has more tap tone then a .9mm lattice braced cedar top as done by many lattice classical makers in AU.

We all know your feelings about Smallman style guitars by now, no need to keep repeating them in unrelated threads.

[christian]

Great to see you have built with paulownia Jeffery! I'm sure it is well suited for a classical.
I pretty much use only natives which are unique on their own but this wood is just to intriguing not to try it out. It's just so much lighter than anything I've tried before!
Granted it isn't the most beautiful wood in the world, and as has been said, bracing will be crucial, so the question is what wood do you team it up with?

Cheers,

Christian.

[simso]

Here is some paulownia put to good use in my shed at home, I bought a pile of it a year or two back, now I use it for steps for my old dog to climb into its kennel and for raising my car of the ground so I can work on it without crawling on the floor.

Bwahahaha

[kiwigeo]

[kiwigeo]

Paulownia...what CANT you do with it???

[simso]

Paulownia...what CANT you do with it???

Build a quality electric guitar,