Those Tonerite doobries

[kiwigeo]

BTW: Every study done can be refuted. It is not necessarily willfull ignorance not to believe them at first glance.
It is one of the principles of scientific study that findings are always under debate.

I trawled through the Tonerite website and found the section titled "Research". Great....maybe here I could find some facts and figures to support Tonerite's claims about it's products. Alas no....nothing more than a page full of good old fashioned sales talk.

In my mind there isn't much debate.....it's the findings of some carefully researched papers written by scientists versus a bunch of hyped up sales talk.

[DarwinStrings]

I noticed the document Markus posted was posted on the AGF shortly after being posted here and they are up to 6 pages of discussion now.
I got something out of it all, a new saying "As useless as a toneright discussion".

Jim

[kiwigeo]

I got something out of it all, a new saying "As useless as a toneright discussion".

Jim

Nah it's actually a very useful discussion.....it gets people thinking about the difference between science and pseudo-scientific advertising hype.

[Kim]

I discovered that my partner has one of these toneright things but hers must be a more expensive version as it has variable frequencies, funny thing is she doesn't play guitar so I guess they work on Oboes too. Jim

Thanks for that Jim

[DarwinStrings]

I dunno Martin, I get the feeling many don't think much of advertising hype but they buy them and try them, those that believe with their ears that a improvement occurs may not be dissuaded by any scientific testing cause they can hear it. Those that can't hear any improvement after using them just decide they don't work and if the science says they do work they won't believe it cause they can't hear it.

All on your head Nick.

Jim

[Nick]

All on your head Nick.
Jim

Geez thanks Jim No As Martin not so subtly commented, it's always a good discussion that can weedle out the snake oil from the good oil. Personally I'm finding it an interesting discussion. I work in a scientific environment (a Chemistry department) where papers are published and on some matters even the 'experts' cannot agree with each other and publish contradictory studies, each proving their side of the argument, hell one of them has even spent the last 40+ years experimenting, finding evidence to disprove the current popular belief in the cause of global warming!
I'm more siding with Marcus on this one though, to my way of thinking we've taken a living thing, cut it up and machined it which all must impart stresses on it no matter how careful we are to avoid this (splitting a billet instead of sawing for example). We then glue these bits together, all are "strangers" to each other, all with slightly differing rates of expansion and contraction, in the case of bracing this is wanting to do it in a different direction than the top it's glued to wants to. The whole assembly is one big box full of stresses, we then introduce more by stringing it up! It must therefore take some time to reach a state of equilibrium where the top and box have relaxed or at least "gotten used to" their new lot in life. This state of equilibrium is what I believe is what we maybe see or describe as 'opening up'. I can't see that subjecting it to vibrations in the first years of it's life are going to magically make it open up but if like Gsanbrook, you see this method as working to achieve that goal then go for it, do whatever you feel works for you. I can't see it being the elixir of life for my builds though!
What would be interesting to see with that experiment is the same procedure carried out maybe ten years down the track to see if the results were any different than they were on the first test but of course the listening test would be a useless yard stick then.

[jeffhigh]

Whilst the tonerite guys want you to think of it as equivalent to "playing in", the study found that

"The magnitude of the acceleration during the vibration treatment is about 100 times smaller than that due to the gentle strum. The sound emanating from the guitar during the vibration treatment and that from the strum showed the same relative magnitudes, consistent with observation
that sound from a guitar results largely from motion of the guitar top. Also the frequency of the vibration treatment
(60 Hz) is significantly different from the frequencies produced by the strum. Hence the vibration treatment is much
more gentle than regular guitar playing and might not be expected to have the same effect"

The study did not attempt to disprove common beliefs in "opening up" or "playing in". only whether the tonerite produced a measurable or subjective effect.

The "evidence" for the tonerite is basically subjectively comparing the treated guitar with a memory of what it sounded like days or weeks before.

[DarwinStrings]

Yep sure I agree Nick, I enjoy them too or I wouldn't bother reading them.

Thanks for that Jim

No worries Kim, didn't realise you have an Oboe.

Jim

[Kim]

Yep sure I agree Nick, I enjoy them too or I wouldn't bother reading them.

Thanks for that Jim

No worries Kim, didn't realise you have an Oboe.

Jim

Yes indeed I do Jim and FYI, I call her Yoko

[kiwigeo]

Yes indeed I do Jim and FYI, I call her Yoko

Sounds like someone's playing the pink oboe

gallery1013-707617.jpg (23.84 KiB) Viewed 15938 times

[DarwinStrings]

Yoko, such a lovely name Kim.

If I walked past that shop Martin I would have to duck in for a sticky beak especially after reading the signs.

Jim

[charangohabsburg]

Placebos can be very powerful, which explains why the Tonerite (and other snake oils) work for some.

A negative example which demonstrates the power a placebo can develop is the case of a guy who took an overdose of what he believed was an antidepressant, which got him into some real health problems which disappeared only (but quickly, within 15 minutes) after the doctors at the hospital found out and told him he was in the placebo group of the med testing program he was participating in.

[needsmorecowbel]

They're a bit behind the times..In 2014 why have one spelling faux pas when you can have many:

my suggestion: " t0n3_Rit3! "

[charangohabsburg]

They're a bit behind the times..In 2014 why have one spelling faux pas when you can have many:

my suggestion: " t0n3_Rit3! "

A 音儀式 is much cheaper.

[charangohabsburg]

I noticed the document Markus posted was posted on the AGF shortly after being posted here and they are up to 6 pages of discussion now.

Thanks for the hint. I found it, and browsing through the now 8 pages(over 100 posts) was quite entertaining!

I got something out of it all, a new saying "As useless as a toneright discussion".

Oh yes, there are quite a few quote-worthy remarks to be found there.

[slowlearner]

Forgive me if I'm wrong, but it seems like I've got 2 options to make my guitar sound better...

1. Pay US$200 (+shipping) for a "tonerite" and let it sit on my guitar while I do nothing
2. Pay AU$0 and do lots of practice to make me AND the guitar sound better

Hmm, I wonder which one is a better use of time and $$$?