Another neck question

[Pat.Hawkins]

Thank you the great advice on neck fitting.
(Progress is slow but good, I think I'm gonna make it)!

Now to test your patience........

If I have an angle on the neck, how can the fretboard glue on top of it then change direction to glue onto the soundboard?
Cheers

[johnparchem]

On a steel string I shape the rim, generally with a radius dish, such that the top when glued down has the correct angle to match what I needed for my neck neck. Before I glue down the top I clamp it on and run a straight edge where the neck extension will be past the saddle position and look to see the desired gap. I correct the rims if I am too far off.

If the body angle does not match, some just glue down the fret board getting either a ski ramp or a 14th or 12 fret hump neither good. There are solutions if the angle is not matching. Once you know where you are at with the neck set properly and how far you are off it can be dealt with then.

[Trevor Gore]

Pat, John is giving you some good advice.

There's some more here. The whole neck angle issue has to be thought about before the box is closed, otherwise you may well end up having a lot of compensatory work to do.

If you search on "neck angle" you should find quite a few relevant posts.

[simso]

I dont shim the gap, I glue the fretboard to the soundboard after the neck is set. Then I level the fretboard on the body before fretting, this gives a zero gap between board and top and a straight run of level frets over the 14th, no hump.

[demonx]

Whilst people are talking about necks, I'm curious about people's opinions of the modern style mounting where there is no tenon or dovetail and the neck is attached by two bolts and threaded inserts in the heel block?

[simso]

Bwahaha, seen way too many that are just fitted with the two bolts, and they fail regularly and keep me well employed, taylor on the other hand with the three bolt system are a very good solid joint, so I would recommend anyone to do at least a fretboard bolt option as well

[kiwigeo]

Whilst people are talking about necks, I'm curious about people's opinions of the modern style mounting where there is no tenon or dovetail and the neck is attached by two bolts and threaded inserts in the heel block?

Integrity of the joint lies 100% with the insert.

I like Trevor's bar anchored bolt on system much better.....there's no way you're going to pull a 10mm square brass bra through your neck.

[rocket]

Whilst people are talking about necks, I'm curious about people's opinions of the modern style mounting where there is no tenon or dovetail and the neck is attached by two bolts and threaded inserts in the heel block?

Integrity of the joint lies 100% with the insert.

I like Trevor's bar anchored bolt on system much better.....there's no way you're going to pull a 10mm square brass bra through your neck.

And are you actually using Trevors method Martin?,,, curious coz although it's a good method it is a fair deviation from other good methods that have served well in the past, IE, screw in studs, screw in studs set in epoxy, the Connor method, steel dowel tapped to receive neck bolts.
Personally i've only just made the progression from a set dovetail which i think is a beautiful ,adequate, strong joint,,, to a bolt on using barrel nuts,,, next one i do will be screw in studs set in epoxy. I've only made this transition for the purpose of future maintenance of my instruments if for some reason there is a neck failure ,,the problem can be addressed with little or no impact to the body/neck intersection, the bolt on method is also an advantage in the finishing phase where i can finish and polish the body and neck separately, without the problem of internal corners, and then connect the two components for a perfect finish,, hopefully!!
Good discussion though!
Cheers

Rod.

[kiwigeo]

And are you actually using Trevors method Martin?,,, curious coz although it's a good method it is a fair deviation from other good methods that have served well in the past, IE, screw in studs, screw in studs set in epoxy, the Connor method, steel dowel tapped to receive neck bolts.
Personally i've only just made the progression from a set dovetail which i think is a beautiful ,adequate, strong joint,,, to a bolt on using barrel nuts,,, next one i do will be screw in studs set in epoxy.

Rod.

Yes I'm currently building a classical with a bolt on/bolt down neck as per Trevor's book.

The only "complicated" aspect of the square anchor bar method is having to drill a square hole through the heel to fit the anchoring bar. Trevor uses a drill press with a morticing attachment, I went one step further and bought a dedicated bench mortiser.

In his book Trevor discusses the round versus square anchor bar argument and mounts a convincing argument against the former.

[demonx]

Bwahaha, seen way too many that are just fitted with the two bolts, and they fail regularly and keep me well employed, taylor on the other hand with the three bolt system are a very good solid joint, so I would recommend anyone to do at least a fretboard bolt option as well

Wouldn't This be the same as using the two bolts and gluing for backup?

Curious how the fail occurs or what the fail is you speak of.

[simso]

Martins are a two bolt system, they are forever coming in with loose neck joints, we also see many other variants, I find that when you only clamp on one face then movement expansion contraction occurs and eventually the bolts come loose, when you bolt down on two faces , there is no allowance for the expansion and contraction issues happening, its a positive lock

All of course only from what I have seen.

[demonx]

Martins are a two bolt system, they are forever coming in with loose neck joints,

I've never taken much notice of Acoustics being that I'm an electric guy, but now that I'm building one I'm starting to notice a lot of things that I wouldn't before.

About the Martins, I'm not sure how they usually join, but I bloke I know from another forum works there (making blocks and bridges) and judging from these pics of his own guitar I just assumed they used to older glued in style join? Maybe it's just their cheaper models that have the bolts? I honestly don't know.









But then upon further investigation I see the two bolt holes:



Oh, the finished guitar just for anyone who's curious:






It's not so much this type of join that I was asking about, as this still has a large dovetail type join. I've seen another style where the acoustic body would require zero route and then there are two bolts. I assume with the bolts it would hold (has worked for electric guitars for decades) and then glue for extra security?