Jim Williams 2009 Repair

jeffhigh · Post by **jeffhigh** » Wed Mar 19, 2014 4:15 pm

This one has collapsed in front of the bridge, the bridge plate has come adrift the soundboard has a small crack, the X brace has split at the intersection and some misguided person has tried to repair it by epoxying on a Carbon Fibre Bar in front of the bridge plate,
The Bridge plate will have to come off, but first that CF bar, any suggestions on how to remove it?

charangohabsburg · Post by **charangohabsburg** » Thu Mar 20, 2014 12:46 am

Hi Jeff, I see two possibilities, each one with its down sides:

Epoxy generally comes off at about 180°C - 200°C.
So you could try to it by heating up the carbon fiber bar with a soldering iron, but I guess that there is a fair risk that the varnish will suffer, and maybe even the top may show a slight discoloration after the operation, but it will be far from scorching.

Another approach would be to sacrifice a bit of top thickness at the gluing surface by forcing a sharp spatula into the top wood beneath the carbon fiber bar and pry it loose, and when the bar and bridge patch are off even out the void and fill it with a new sliver of spruce or whatever wood the top is made of.

I have removed epoxied parts both ways round. The important thing is that you take your time.

Jeremy D · Post by **Jeremy D** » Thu Mar 20, 2014 8:16 am

That looks like a really thick bridge plate.

Trevor · Post by **Trevor** » Thu Mar 20, 2014 8:25 am

I have done a lot of very intricate wood carving with power tools and small burrs. I would try a dremel and do some fine dentistry on the CF bar.
No chance of burns or further splitting.

jeffhigh · Post by **jeffhigh** » Thu Mar 20, 2014 8:29 am

Managed to get the CF bar off with a hot pallet knife and more surprises.
Someone has been in here before and it's not pretty
Beneath that Humungeous rosewood bridgeplate is the original Maple plate and a 30 x 20 patch at the front, total 4.8mm thick, but just floating over much of the area.
All epoxied on........
And the brace behind the bridgeplate was only just hanging in there so it's off now.

charangohabsburg · Post by **charangohabsburg** » Thu Mar 20, 2014 8:52 am

Glad you got that bar out without further damage Jeff. Good job so far!

jeffhigh wrote:[...]
Beneath that Humungeous rosewood bridgeplate is the original Maple plate and a 30 x 20 patch at the front, total 4.8mm thick, but just floating over much of the area.
All epoxied on........

Great!

But after what we have seen before it is actually not a big surprise either. It reminds me a bit on the epic repair-reversion the Italian luthier Luca Waldner did on the Torres guitar that had belonged to Francisco Tárrega: that guitar had glued in 4mm thick cedar plates between the fan struts, all with water-"resistant" white vinyl glue! I'll have a look if I can find publicly accessible pictures of that case, just to make you feel better...

Trevor wrote: [...] I would try a dremel and do some fine dentistry on the CF bar. [...]

Not recommendable!
CF dust is about the least thing you want in your lungs, I think only asbestos and radioactive substances are worse.

simso · Post by **simso** » Thu Mar 20, 2014 10:31 am

I dont know if its the photo or just me, but those bridge pin locations, look way to far back from the x brace, and the x brace looks to be to far back from the rosette.

The load on the top would not be pretty, and explains all the collapsing and cracking forward of the bridge

jeffhigh · Post by **jeffhigh** » Thu Mar 20, 2014 10:46 am

Yep, its a 12 fret neck so the bridge pins are a fair way back, and the X brace angle is spread more than I would like.
But I am assuming that it has experienced some physical abuse too such as being sat on.

The new owner paid $2000 for it. I am disgusted that someone would sell it like that with such shoddy repairs.

Repair plans include a Carbon fibre/spruce /Carbon fibre patch filling the V

kiwigeo · Post by **kiwigeo** » Sat Mar 22, 2014 11:13 am

Purely out of interest....is the guitar built Spanish method like in his book or is there a neck/body joint?

Jim's book was used on my first build...an OM. The guitar is still being played by a pro musician friend who refuses to give it back to me. Ya never lend out your first build

jeffhigh · Post by **jeffhigh** » Sat Mar 22, 2014 3:19 pm

I's a bolt on with two bolts to the inside, can't tell any other details of the joint, I'm working on this with neck and bridge intact.
It really has very little in common with the book.

jeffhigh · Post by **jeffhigh** » Sun Mar 23, 2014 4:28 pm

Staring to reinforce the bridge area
Epoxy/CF/Spruce to start
The face is sitting on a caul cutout for the bridge and packed up to the pickguard thickness