Fish Glue....never again.

[nnickusa]

Bought a bottle of fish glue a while back, and used it for binding on a guitar I'm working on. Stayed sweet for a month or so, but it's gotten a wee bit warm lately. 36-40 degrees. I pulled the guitar out to work on it again, and found that the bindings, oh so solid for so long, have released all aroung the back.

No picture as I've just re-glued and taped the binding up again, and hope to hell it'll hold. This is a commossion, so I'm scared to put it out there at all. I'll see......

Fish glue is now in the bin. Titebond 1 from now on....never had any issue with that....


SHIT, SHIT, SHIT.....

[Allen]

Never used it, but have heard of this happening too often for me to ever want to try it. One more confirmation that it's just too temperamental for my liking.

Did you build the whole instrument with it, or just the bindings?

[Jeremy D]

Wow all I seem to read about this glue is horror stories. I am going to stay well away.

[nnickusa]

I read lots of positive responses on a few forums regarding fish glue, so thought I would give it a go. Just like Hide glue, but longer open time, etc, etc....

Just trying to prevent anyone else from experiencing problems.

ROYAL PITA!

Happily, just the bindings. Oddly the top bindings are solid as rocks,,,go figger....

[kiwigeo]

That glue sounds fishey...

[rocket]

Sorry to hear Nick,,, that would piss me right off , hope you can solve the problem without too much hastle.
Rod.

[jjh]

Another fish glue problem check these links

http://www.luthiersforum.com/forum/view ... 01&t=42379

http://www.luthiercom.org/phpBB3/viewto ... =97&t=1748

Making me nervy used it solely on my last 2 ukes

[Nick]

That glue sounds fishey...

Nick thought he'd try it just for the Halibut, plus he'd heard it was really resonant when playing scales. *buddum bom, kishhhh*

[Kim]

I bought a ltr of FG a few years back from Germany. A while after it had arrived and been placed upon the shelf, a negative post appeared about FG @ the OLF. It was my opinion once the regular level of debate was over, the most credible input as to 'why' there had been a problem was pointing the finger at the glue perhaps having 'settled out' during storage.

That idea came up when someone (cannot remember who) asked the OP how old the glue had been. As I recall, the OP had advised he bought the bottle a couple of years before but had not had any issues with it until recently. Of course it was then suggested that the glue was probably past it's use-by. The OP responded that he did not think so, that the glue did not smell off, nor had it changed in viscosity.

A post was then made by someone (?) stating how they had been using fish glue over a fairly long period and during that time had only ever encountered a problem when the glue had been left to sit for an extended period and then not stirred prior to use. They had gone on to suggest that this 'settling out' can be clearly seen through the opaque plastic container the glue is shipped in, as a "more milky layer on the bottom".

I went out to the shed (without camera) to check my bottle. Yep, app 1/3 of the bottle did indeed have a milky layer. There was no clearly defined point of separation, rather it appeared as a kind of 'beige reverse sunset' being that it was brownish at the very top, graduating to a latte at the very bottom. I put a stick into the bottle and could feel how, perhaps like settled oil based paint but less so, the mix was more mobile at the top and considerably less viscous at the bottom..

After a good stir I have used that glue for bonding leather and cloth etc on non-instrument related projects, but because doubt remains about its long term reliability due to its hygroscopic potential, I will be giving it a miss on all things with strings until it is well proven by others....HHG for me.

Cheers

Kim

[nnickusa]

Well, not to carp on the subject, but I read how the old spanish builders were all using Fish, and I made sure it was well-mixed, as per instruction, and the majority of what read was positive, even some claims it helps when one is a tun"a" de guitar. I don't want to skate around the real point of the original post, which was a warning, but the sharks in the group may have more "white pointer"ed comments to offer. Indeed after mulleting it over I stand by my original recommendation to avoid the stuff, and mine has been cast into the abyss....

[needsmorecowbel]

There's a flounder joke somewhere in there ...

[nnickusa]

Well, I was floundering around for the next fish reference at one point......Does that help?

[Lutherie Gervais]

I LOVE fish glue !

It dry as glass, it clean up very well with warm moisture, it really tighten joint like hide glue and joint are seemless

You only need to know when to use it.
I wouldn't of use it on binding, it takes too long to dry (6 to 12hours)
Titebond is the way for binding and other job I don't want to loose time and is not that much important (soundwise)
I would never use fish glue for gluing the bridge down. Never.

I love using fish glue for bracing, headstock angle and heel, end bloc as well.

Depending on if I end my day of work with a gluing, I could choose to take fishglue and call it for the day, I know it will be dry next morning, then clean up the squizz
Or if it is in the morning then maybe I will choose Titebond.
Or maybe epoxy if it's on the week-end.

I choose polyurethan for all my lamination of veneer. That's is the glue to use !

I'm from Canada, depending on your climate you should work with what's best. In my case I can use fishglue as often as I wish
Been a luthier mean you can master every aspect of guitar building, choosing the right glue at the right time is one of many task.
Also be sure of the climat you client lives in. If he is in Texas,USA where it's really dry, you should build in those condition, maybe drop your RH to 30-40 ... the opposite is true, if you are selling your instrument in a hot, wet climat, build on the higher side of RH and then maybe forget the use of fish glue.

E. Gervais
lutheriegervais.com

[Clancy]

I've had issues with fish glue.
The supplier suggested it was due to high humidity during construction.
I was in Alice Springs at the time.
The glue went in the bin.

[tippie53]

I have been using fish for a long time. One thing people do wrong is never mix it. Also I don't like it for binding but some will. Fish glue has about a 2 year shelf live and requires about a 6 hr clamp time.
In all fairness on the posted links any guitar held in 80% humidity will show signs of stress. Also this will not work as a void filling glue light tite bond. I had one failure on a bridge and found that I didn't get through the sealer so that was on me. No issues since. Like anything , if you are not comfortable with it , use what you like.

[Jim Kirby]

I have to go in the fish glue defender column too. I use it for the entire guitar, and have had no immediate trouble after I learned not to over-clamp joints like bridges and fingerboards. Fish glue will keep moving for a long time under pressure and it is possible to starve joints. My guitars are living in the USA mid-Atlantic and summer humidity can be the pits. I know all my owners and no guitars have come back.

Of course I'm concerned about the stories of the guitars disintegrating in excess humidity. But I just haven't seen an example of it, and, to the contrary, my one occasional ongoing process to disassemble one of my own guitars that needs a little geometry adjustment has been a royal pain because I just can't get the fish-glued body apart.