Shed ideas

[needsmorecowbel]

Hi Guys I have been looking into making a space to do some creative projects including guitar making as my family has come to the realisation that our current shed just doesn't work as it is and needs to be demolished to make way for something more practical. It is a very basic tin shed on a concrete slab (8 x 4.5 m) riddled with cracks and concrete cancer. There is no lining over the tin as it is a very old shed nor are there any seals over the gaps between the concrete slab and the shed. In some areas the shed has also been concreted right up to the tin so rust has most likely settled in at the bottom of the tin sheets. The plan is to build something bigger at 8 x 10 m and have half of the space for a car and storage and the other half as a woodworking shop with a roofspace abovep the worksho (and its insulation) to house a canoe and other things.

I am so far thinking of dividing the workshop into two sections and having one area for machinery and benches and a dry room/ cupboard that would be probably about 2-3 x 4.5 m. Leaving a workshop space of roughly 4.5m x 5.5 to 6.5 m. Seeing as it isn't a really a huge space I'm thinking of having most machinery on wheels/ on benches with wheels so things don't clutter up the centre of the space. The shed my family is looking at is a colourbond construction which will be lined with this bubblewrap-esque thermal lining (my architect mate says it has an efficiency rating of 2.5 whatever that means) pretty basic structure with a roller door for the car and an entrance door. Basic idea was we'd then get the assistance of a friendly carpenter to dynabolt a frame inside the structure, put insulation into the walls, plaster the walls/ ceiling and place any wiring ahead of time (so the electrician simply has to connect wiring) and also put in a floating floor over the concrete slab in the main workshop area.

I'll chuck up some pictures of the old shed for those interested in acquiring some materials for home projects etc etc ------> I am based in Northcote in Melbourne

* If anyone is looking for old shed panelling/ roofing material or wants to make a smaller shed/ chicken coup from the panelling we currently have just sling me a pm. The shed is 4.5 x 8 m but the panelling is only on the two sides as there is a 'fireproof' cinder block wall on the boundary line. Alternatively if someone is after the steel frame/ sections let me know I will post some pics by dinner time today.

Anyone had great success with thermal lining in tin/ steel sheds?

Stuart

[needsmorecowbel]

Pictures:

[willcall]

Hi, R2.5 isn't bad but it's not amazing either. The best I have seen is R7.0 which is an aluminium sandwich panel a bit like honey comb in structure.

With a colorbond shed or any buuilding for that matter the best way to get heat reduction (if that's the issue) is to keep the sun off the building in the first place. This can be done through the use of lattice screens set up about 30cm or so away from the external walls.
Not sure what it's like down there in Melbourne but in Brizzy it's always heaps hotter in a tin shed then outside. They are like saunas, humidity and all.

Depending what you are wanting it for (ie multi purpose shed), I would go with blueboard wall linings as it is a lot tougher than plasterboard.

Just my 2cents anyway.

Will

[needsmorecowbel]

Thanks Will I'm in the design stage at the moment so helpful ideas such as the blueboard and lattice are great starting points!

[peter.coombe]

What I did was to buy a steel shed frame and clad it with Hebel panels. Hebel is the best building material for sound insulation and has a R rating of 1.5. I can record in the workshop during the day and it is dead silent. The shed is a 4 bay shed, so is roughly 6 x 12m divided into 2 rooms, facing north with a verandah on the northern side. Internally it is insulated with 1.5 fibreglass in the walls, 3.0 cell plus 1.5 fibreglass underneath the roof and lined with gyprock. Works brilliantly. The slab needs a bit more support around the edges to support the weight of the Hebel, and you need an extra top hat to screw the Hebel to that is not normally suppled with the colourbond shed kits. I used the local Ranbuild shed supplier for the frame. Here are pictures of the construction external and internal. The house is also steel frame and Hebel construction.
http://petercoombe.com/Bega%20house/workshop.htm
http://petercoombe.com/Bega%20house/workshop2.htm

[jeffhigh]

Rather than buying a steel shed, and then having to frame it up internally to be able to line it, why not use standard domestic stud wall and roof truss construction from the start. Then you can do a proper job rather than a conversion, and insulate walls and ceiling with foil and fiberglass bats.

[needsmorecowbel]

The shed has been ordered as of this afternoon to my surprise (was moving a lot of bricks when the news was sprung on me). Basically Jeff I didn't have a huge say in the physical structure of the structure as it is not really my land (my parents' land). I do get a say in the the floorplan and the interior walls/ insulation. I am cautiously optimistic that I can get it working the way I want it to work with an interior stud wall set back 90 mm from the shed wall and a crap load of insulation. Regardless it will be a lot better than what I have at the moment which is nothing. Any suggestions on what materials I should use to maximise the insulation for the ceiling and walls? Peter and Jeff have Suggested Fibreglass. What about Rockwool?

Stu

[vandenboom]

I just built a new, small workshop. Colourbond walls & roof. Particleboard floor. I used foilboard for insulation - 10mm sheets in walls and floor. 15 mm sheets in roof. It supposed to be pretty effective if you follow their installation guidelines. Summertime will tell!! Frank

[needsmorecowbel]

Hey Frank! Fingers crossed! It is those 40 + degree days that do the damage...

[liam_fnq]

Rather than buying a steel shed, and then having to frame it up internally to be able to line it, why not use standard domestic stud wall and roof truss construction from the start. Then you can do a proper job rather than a conversion, and insulate walls and ceiling with foil and fiberglass bats.

You'd have to have a set of plans drawn up to get it through council. When you buy a kit shed the plans come with it. This sound like it's not a big deal but it is. The council morons like things to be kept simple for them. It's much easier to just rubber stamp the standard plans. A set of custom plans have to be looked at. There's only so many things a poor public servant can do a once. You've got coffee to drink, cakes and biscuits to eat, bitching about being underpaid and over worked on a 36hr week, booking you next holiday online, solitare, bitching about how your direct superior gets to take a car home, lunch, team bonding afternoons (aka go-carting) etc. Adding having to actually vett a set of plans is hard work, and enough to piss you off. Might just reject the placement of the shed on the property arbitrarily just because you made me do some work. Then you'll have to pay a dispensation so you can put it where you wanted it in the first place.

It's been two years since I built my shed................I'm starting to calm down.

[peter.coombe]

+1 on buying a kit shed. You get standard plans and all the engineering info necessary for the construction certificate included in the price. The council just needs to rubber stamp it because they are all the same. Coupled with that is you get instructions on how to build it. They are not difficult to build, I have built 2 with Hebel cladding and 1 bigger shed with colourbond cladding, all as owner builder projects. The bigger shed was a bit hairy because of the height, but I managed to build most of it myself (excluding the slab). Needed help for the roller doors and roofing. As far as insulation is concerned, fibreglass is ok, but horrible stuff to handle. You can get foil insulation with R rating 1.5 or higher nowadays that is far easier to handle than fibreglass. I used that on the big shed under the roof.

It is all very well to talk about insulation, but the colour of the shed is more important, especially the roof. Dark colours will absorb a heck of a lot more heat, and insulation will only slow down the heat transfer. Roller doors are not insulated so is vital to use a light colour for roller doors. I used Surfmist (off white) for the roller doors and light colours for the roof and walls in the big shed. Works well, it is cooler in the shed than outside on the hottest summer days even though the walls are uninsulated colorbond steel and the shed is in the full glare of the sun. Darker colours and it would be stinking hot inside. However, councils can be funny with colours. Our council will not approve Surfmist roofs because they are too reflective!

Peter

[Mike Thomas]

I've just had a shed built, a Sidach kit shed 11.5 x 6 metres, with an internal wall which divides it into two, with an access door between. The two areas are "the clean room", which is 3.5 x 6 metres, and the "dirty bit", which is 8 x 6 metres. There's a roller door, 3 personal access doors, and 8 windows, and the roof is insulated with sisalation (I think that's what it's called). The kit cost about $10, 000. The "clean room" is lined, walls and ceiling with 9mm plywood, and has fibreglass Pink Batts in the space between the walls, and roof and ceiling. The clean room has a Daikin reverse cycle air conditioner for heating in winter, and cooling in summer. This has an inbuilt dehumidifier function, which I have yet to try. That particular unit cost around $1500 installed, but well worth it. It may be common knowledge that it's cold in Tassie, but it can be hot as well; 40 deg. C are not unknown in Hobart, and even 25 deg. can be 38 deg. in the shed.

The plywood lining seems to work well. It is good for screwing things to, and hanging things on, and it's pretty resistant to impact damage.

[kiwigeo]

I convinced my wife we needed an $80,000 double garage with an attached "storeroom". The storeroom mysteriously became a workshop and just as mysteriously became climate controlled. The spare bay in the garage houses the dust prudicung machinery and the clean operations go on in the workshop.

[needsmorecowbel]

I think the colour is paperbark (off white) to go with a similar colourbond structure out the back. I know there was a product used to spray roofs called thermoshield my workplace had quite a bit of success with it and boy when you went on the roof you needed sunnies. They claim it can alter the internal temp by up to 45%. Would have cost a fortune to spray the three roofs they did (all up about 100 square m). I think the product would have absolutely no domestic application as the neighbours would be going nuts with the mid afternoon sun reflecting off your stark white shed roof. They spray grain silos and petrol tanks with it.

I'd love to have that kind of money to put towards a shed Martin but I have made a budget of about 12-15 grand and thus have to make do with what is there. By the way I have a few nice bits of wood for you when I am sure they are down to the correct moisture content. Can't really tell how well quartersawn they are as the grain configuration is quite wild but it is a looker for sure.

[Nick Payne]

Anyone had great success with thermal lining in tin/ steel sheds?

I recently saw a garden shed built from Kingspan panels (both walls and roof). Kingspan is panelling made from layers of colorbond steel bonded on a foam core, so no additional insulation is needed. The owner of the shed claimed that the insulation worked well - not overly cold in winter and certainly not too hot in summer. He said that the R value of the panels varies from about 2.7 to over 7 depending on the thickness of the foam core.

I don't know what it cost - the owner of the shed works in the construction industry, and said that a lot of the panels in it were offcuts from some large commercial jobs. Kingspan is mostly used in commercial buildings - around here, examples of its use are the latest workshop building at Mt Stromlo Observatory, the new wing of the Canberra Hospital, a couple of the new ANU buildings, and most of the new office buildings at Canberra Airport.

[vandenboom]

Re Kingspan, I hadn't heard it called by that name, but it is also used for some on site caravan annexes.
I looked into it for my new little shed. I found a supplier who gave me an indicative price of $40 sq metre.
As you have pointed out, it would have been great as far as easy to put together, temp and noise insulation. The main thing that put me off it was I just wasn't sure how it would go for fixing shelves and holding all the other bits and pieces many of us hang on our workshop walls. A final bit of trivia concerns how you cut it - get a crappy power saw blade and put it in backwards!!
Frank