Calling all Adelaide Luthiers

[Lando]

to whoever reads this

hi

My name is Lando Di Girolamo and Im a 4th year Industrial design (product designer) student at UNI SA and for my fourth year project i want to design and make an acoustic guitar. Now I'm a guitar player and i love acoustics the most, so what better project could there be? thing is ive never made a guitar before, but i have been reading up a bit and think its within my capabilities to do it.

ill have access to a huge workshop at my uni and i want to make the most of it and design a truly unique guitar, i want the best possible sound from this thing and ultimate sound projection, a real tone monster

to cut a long story short, im looking for an Adelaide based luthier who wouldn't mind showing me the ropes, and helping me through the project, there will be complete compensation and recognition for your efforts and special mention at my end of year exhibition (which i hope you would come to)

let me know if you are interested

email is lando.digirolamo@gmail.com

cheers

Lando

[kiwigeo]

Welcome to the forum Lando,

Im based in Adelaide but Im not a professional luthier and my job keeps me away from home for a large part of the year. While I cant supply the hands on supervision youre after, youre most welcome to pop up to my workshop in the hills next time Im home and check out the workshop and ask questions. Not sure yet when Ill be home next but it will be mid to late March. PM me your phone number and I'll get in contact with you when I get back into town.

Cheers and good luck with the project.

Martin

[Kamusur]

+++ 1 for Martin

Steve

[Kamusur]

Oops ah G day Lando and good luck with the project

Steve

[Nick]

Welcome to the forum Lando, hang out here and search the archives(even looking through the Gallery section for inspiration) will go along way to filling out your knowledge base and provide a good starting point, there are also plenty of knowledgable people here willing to share so feel free to ask questions. I cannot help with the building side unfortunately as I live across the Tassy but wish you well in finding someone to assist you.

ill have access to a huge workshop at my uni and i want to make the most of it and design a truly unique guitar, i want the best possible sound from this thing and ultimate sound projection, a real tone monster

Great goals to have but be careful when setting them that high for your first build, builders that have knocking these things out for years are still striving to reach them, with every build they get closer to acheiving it but still the 'ultimate' guitar eludes them/us, the intricacies & variables are so numerous (it's what keeps us building them). That said though, it's still possible to make a first guitar that plays & sounds good that you will be proud to play. Keep us informed as you build too & remember....plenty of pictures ! We like pics here.

[ozwood]

Hi Lando ,

Do yourself a favour , start off on the right note ( no pun Intended) and get a copy of Trevor Gore's design and Build books , will be the best money you spend , especially if you want the thing to have half a chance of sounding good,I have had them for a while now and it was the best money I have ever spent , wish I had started off with them.

http://www.goreguitars.com.au/main/page ... rview.html


Cheers,

[jeffhigh]

I'll second the recommendation on the Trevor Gore Books. Definitely worth it if you want to understand the design aspects of a guitar.
The challenge for you doing this as a design project will be finding something new and distinctive to be "Yours" whilst still sounding and playing like a guitar.

[woodrat]

I have to agree with the two above posters....I was of the opinion that they are not for beginners but I have changed my thoughts on this...sure they will be way over the head of someone who is just starting but that would not be a reason not to have them. They, quite simply, are the most comprehensive document on the physics of and the building of a guitar IMHO. Given the choice I would have chosen them instead of the books that I did start with although they too are good (Cumpiano and Natelson) they do not have the scope and breadth that the Gore/Gilet book has. Its quite simply an enormous work and one that will make us all better guitar makers as we continue in the journey of the craft.

John

[Lando]

Hey guys

cheers heaps for all the advice, and the tips on the books is awesome because thats the kind of stuff im going to need during the year, im going to be into the books big time ha ha

and as for setting my goals high, i cant help it 3 years of Industrial design study teaches you to strive high, thats why im asking for the help of somebody who knows thier stuff, so i can take thier knowledge and build my own with it, understand the process and find my own way.

im not looking for the Perfect guitar, i can imagine how hard that would be to achieve, but the point of my project will be to design a guitar that is truly unique in its performance, but that will come with time and design work.

Industrial design is the process of trying to find ways of dealing with problems in an innovative way.
for example i have read that the bracing in a guitar is a necessity but it also effects the sound board negatively, so i would want to try and design a new bracing system that doesnt effect the sound board as much...does that make sense?
thats what im aiming for with this guitar.

and cheers Martin, i think ill take up that offer ha ha, nice excuse to drive up into the hills

cheers guys, and dont worry, i will be keeping you all posted, it will be a good incentive to keep my design journal up to date, ha ha
you can all see my design process and offer up suggestions, i would really appreciate it. This place seems like THE BEST place for enthusiastic builders willing to lend a hand.

Cheers

Lando

[kiwigeo]

Industrial design is the process of trying to find ways of dealing with problems in an innovative way.
for example i have read that the bracing in a guitar is a necessity but it also effects the sound board negatively, so i would want to try and design a new bracing system that doesnt effect the sound board as much...does that make sense?
thats what im aiming for with this guitar.

and cheers Martin, i think ill take up that offer ha ha, nice excuse to drive up into the hills

Hi Lando,

You've set yourself a fairly tough goal there. From your reading you'll quickly note that many very experienced luthiers have spent many years of their time busting their nuts to come up with radical new bracing systems and not all have had great success. Kasha's bracing systems are interesting but whether they work or not not seems to be a subject of great debate and he certainly had problems getting his designs accepted.

I must warn you that I'm a traditionalist when it comes to guitar building and I'm a cynical old sceptic and take longer than most to accept radical new ideas. I build as a hobby so can afford to waste lots of time on my builds. If I was building for a living I would have gone bust a long time ago.

As others have indicated Trevor Gore's two books are a must read for you.

Cheers Martin

[jeffhigh]

Industrial design is the process of trying to find ways of dealing with problems in an innovative way.
for example i have read that the bracing in a guitar is a necessity but it also effects the sound board negatively, so i would want to try and design a new bracing system that doesnt effect the sound board as much...does that make sense?
thats what im aiming for with this guitar.

I would consider that an erroneous concept.
Bracing is good, it stiffens the soundboard much more efficiently than having a thicker soundboard and allows you to cope with the directional nature of loads imposed by the strings and the differing properties of the soundboard along and across the grain.
While not impossible, It will be very difficult for you as a new builder to come up with a new bracing system that someone has not tried before in the last 2 centuries.

[ozwood]

Lando,

You need to Come north and visit Justin Montifiore and Stewart Newman , both of these Guys think well outside of the Box in every way , you may learn as much from there failures as you will from there success , and save your self a lot of time and money in the process , both of them are generous souls and I'm sure would share some insights with you about what they have tried.

Cheers,


http://www.newmanguitars.com/

http://www.montefioreinstruments.com/Site_2/Home_2.html

[matthew]

http://www.newmanguitars.com/

http://www.montefioreinstruments.com/Site_2/Home_2.html

I wouldn't go by what you read on those websites though Cras ac turpis arcu all right!

"I commissioned Stuart to design me a guitar with an image to match the tattoo on me arse. I had to stay still for ages while he traced the ink but in the end he nailed it. Lorem ipsum dolor sit amet, consectetur adipiscing elit. Cras ac turpis arcu. Nulla lorem odio, fermentum non dignissim a, auctor eu massa. Aenean imperdiet odio non elit ornare non tristique magna laoreet. Integer non nisi nisi. In vel quam vel lacus tincidunt gravida. Morbi quis cursus nibh. Quisque sit amet sollicitudin augue. Mauris sodales mollis augue id mollis. Pellentesque habitant morbi tristique senectus et netus et malesuada fames ac turpis egestas. Nunc placerat elit id lacus sagittis malesuada. Lorem ipsum dolor sit amet, consectetur adipiscing elit. Cras ac turpis arcu. Nulla lorem odio, fermentum non dignissim a, auctor eu massa. Aenean imperdiet odio non elit ornare non tristique magna laoreet. Integer non nisi nisi. In vel quam vel lacus tincidunt gravida. Morbi quis cursus nibh. Quisque sit amet sollicitudin augue. Mauris sodales mollis augue id mollis. Pellentesque habitant morbi tristique senectus et netus et malesuada fames ac turpis egestas. Nunc placerat elit id lacus sagittis malesuada."

[rocket]

Yep,,, my sentiments exactly Mathew!!
Rod.

[Nick]

Lorem ipsum dolor sit amet, consectetur adipiscing elit. Cras ac turpis arcu. Nulla lorem odio, fermentum non dignissim a, auctor eu massa. Aenean imperdiet odio non elit ornare non tristique magna laoreet. Integer non nisi nisi. In vel quam vel lacus tincidunt gravida. Morbi quis cursus nibh. Quisque sit amet sollicitudin augue. Mauris sodales mollis augue id mollis. Pellentesque habitant morbi tristique senectus et netus et malesuada fames ac turpis egestas. Nunc placerat elit id lacus sagittis malesuada. Lorem ipsum dolor sit amet, consectetur adipiscing elit. Cras ac turpis arcu. Nulla lorem odio, fermentum non dignissim a, auctor eu massa. Aenean imperdiet odio non elit ornare non tristique magna laoreet. Integer non nisi nisi. In vel quam vel lacus tincidunt gravida. Morbi quis cursus nibh. Quisque sit amet sollicitudin augue. Mauris sodales mollis augue id mollis. Pellentesque habitant morbi tristique senectus et netus et malesuada fames ac turpis egestas. Nunc placerat elit id lacus sagittis malesuada."[/i]

Translation: "Clean up in aisle 3!"

youtu.be/

[Lando]

Hey guys,

im not out to redesign the wheel, i just want to find something that i can do to make this guitar a "new" product, if that makes sense, and I know its hard to improve on something that has been done a million different ways already, but thats where the challenge is and thats what i need to do.

like boulder creek guitars, they have that Suspended bracing system, innovations like that etc.

if this is just beyond my abilities then i want to make it a material study, find out what difference materials make in the different applications on a guitar.

well we will see what happens.

cheers

Lando

[jeffhigh]

I applaud you for trying Lando, just keep the bullshit meter handy when reading (especially if it's me)
A lot of "innovations" just provide a marketing distinction.
Even if a luthier does make an outstanding guitar, his explanations on why are frequently nonsense

Perhaps looking at improved ergonomics could be worthwhile

[Allen]

The longer you do this the more you realise that there aint much new under the sun when it comes to building an instrument. What is todays greatest innovation can be found in instruments built 100 years ago. It's just that the USA Patent Office will grant a patent to just about anyone. Your enthusiasm is obvious, but forgive me if I say we've seen it all so many times before. And I'm not trying to be rude or offensive. Just realistic.

Your outline brief as I read it is so all over the place as to be quite unachievable in one build by the most experienced luthier. Those are things that are tried and modified over a series of many instruments. You won't find anyone here who would say that their first instrument was the be all and end all. In fact it's not until you have about 10 or so under your belt that you even start to get a idea of what does what and more importantly why. You can read all you want about it, but the truth of the matter is that you've got to build a lot of them to know whats happening, and why, and then have any chance of getting better.

I would think that a more realistic goal would be to focus on just one or perhaps two aspects of a guitar while trying your best at making the instrument as well assembled as you can. Believe me, that is going to be enough of a challenge in itself. As this in a uni coarse more is going to be expected than the year 12 students we've had here doing the same thing.

For example ones that come to mind...improved ergonomics. Perhaps a modification for a player with mobility or physical limitations in mind.

You could explore what different tonewoods do, but without a body of experience and knowledge your findings will lack any substance and essentially be meaningless,. You can't rely on others results, as every luthier has their own style so things like response, tone, volume etc. will not be easily compared.

As you are in the industrial design I would think that a study in that would be more appropriate. If you want some inspiration in way out there design without the limitations of having to make the best guitar ever made, then perhaps you can get some ideas from Michihiro Matsuda who I think is one of the most innovative luthiers in the world. Have a look at his "deconstruction of a ukulele" for something that is really outside the box.

[Lando]

Ok i think im being mis-understood by some users

Firstly i havent set any design brief for myself because i have to find out what it is that im going to focus on.
Ive said again and again, im not out to make the perfect guitar, the perfect guitar will never exist, period.

I said before that im not out to re-invent the wheel, i know guitars have been designed and built for ages, but so have a million other products. Industrial design is about all areas of a products life, the concepts, innovations, re-finement, ergonomics, materials, production methods, packaging, and how it gets disposed of when its no longer usable.
you name it, from the cradle to the grave, we focus on everything.

With any product there is always a scope for improvement no mater what, nothing is ever "finished" in the world of design. Im sorry if im offending anyone by saying this but its not going to help me any if i just give up and say "there is no room for improvement."

But you cant say to me its all been done because if that were true then these guitars compannies would never exist. These companies are all relatively young

http://www.blackbirdguitars.com
http://www.rainsong.com
http://www.bouldercreekguitars.com

Im very aware that as a first time builder it will be hard, but thats exactily why im seeking help from other builders, people who have the experience and knowledge. Through my degree ive had to design things ive never even thought about before, for example in my 2nd year we had to design a bathroom/toilet for a space shuttle taking EVERYTHING into account for a real life application. Thats what i deal with for design projects.

im not out to offend anyone, so sorry if im rubbing you the wrong way guys

Lando

[jeffhigh]

No one was offended
In saying "it's all been done before I personally included carbon fibre guitars.
Good idea or bad, its been done for at least 10 years.
Mario Macaferri mass produced plastic guitars in the 50's or 60's
I have not had the opportunity to play one of the boulder creek guitars, but that"suspended bracing" looks like a lot of mass attached to the bridge and the explanation of doing this to reduce attached bracing does not ring true to me

[matthew]

i think possibly the best outcome for you here would be uf one if the experienced luthiers her would set you a specific design challenge or research topic.

[kiwigeo]

Thinking aloud here.....

I've done a bit of googling and all the industrial design guitar projects I come across are to do with electric solid body guitars. On The ABC show "The Inventors" I recall one guy coming on with a solid body with a folding neck.

I think one should ask why it is that electrics seem to be the focus of industrial design. Maybe it's because producing an electric guitar lends itself more easily to an industrial environment than an acoustic guitar......particularly high end acoustic instruments. The use of plastics and other synthetic materials is more acceptable on an electric than on an acoustic and mass producing plastic and synthetic components can be done with machinery and relatively unskilled labour. The materials used in an electric are more uniform and have more constant and predictable properties than the wood used on acoustics...particularly top wood. I get batches of tops cut from the same tree and the variation in physical properties can be quite significant.

An acoustic guitar is a weird blend of art and science...and in my case a bit of good luck as well. The art part is well understood but the science part we don't fully understand. Many experienced luthiers can turn out great guitars but if you ask them to quantify why the guitar sounds good then alot of these guys can't give you much of an answer. Most of the guys that can give an answer have degrees or experience in engineering or other relevant sciences.

At this stage if asked to give one piece of advice it would be to seriously consider focusing your project on the electric guitar.

Anyway I'm sure we can carry on the discussion with appropriate lubricating substances at The Stirling Pub.

[kiwigeo]

Link for the folding neck guitar seen in New Inventers:

http://www.abc.net.au/tv/newinventors/txt/s2306911.htm

[Tod Gilding]

What do you think about focusing on the longevity of a guitar ?

[kiwigeo]

A modular guitar case......baggage handler proof and with inserts that can be modified to fit a variety of different instruments.