Newbie with a project

[nnickusa]

Yeah, thanks for the post. I watched them this morning.

That's not the really harrowing part, but the routing.....


Off to Bunnings tomorrow morning to look for a deeper cutting bit, and then new jigs....

[P Bill]

Hi Nick, nice work. I go to the library for the heavy pic threads, today was my first chance.

[nnickusa]

Thank you, Bill...

I'm at a bit of a stopping point until I get a chance to get to Bunnings and find a router bit for the dovetail. I'm not too confident to try and make one by hand, although I do have long familiarity with my tools as a carpenter, but I think discretion is called for here.....

I am working on a few bits, like the bridge and a few decorative pieces, but I want to have plenty of time to work the neck joint, so Sunday looks like my best option.

The only part of Kinkade's book that is sketchy on detail is the dovetail joint, so I'm looking at as many net demonstrations as I can, including the ones posted here....basically, he says, I make the joint with jigs that I made, then fit it by sanding the neck till it fits....No mention of the depth of cut, angles for the dovetail, etc....

Don't want to screw this part up, or else the marshmallow roast in the chiminea is a distinct possibility...

Note to self: next time I want to make 60 odd pieces of MOP for the purfling, go to the pub instead

[kiwigeo]

Thank you, Bill...

I'm at a bit of a stopping point until I get a chance to get to Bunnings and find a router bit for the dovetail. I'm not too confident to try and make one by hand, although I do have long familiarity with my tools as a carpenter, but I think discretion is called for here.....

Im using a 10degree dovetail cutter with bearing I got from Stewmac but you should be able to use one of Carbitools dovetail bits. Carbitool carry suitable bearings to run on the shank of the cutter...youll just have to find some short pieces of plastic sleeving to space out the bearing on the shank to suit your jig.

I've bought alot of cutters from Carbitool and found the product and service good.

http://www.carbitool.com.au

[auscab]

Nick, you can get the dovetail dimensions straight off the plan that comes with the book, I did my one mostly by hand, I just routed the bottom level with a dove tail bit free hand, doing it that way saved making another jig.

When I do make a jig it will be based on this one that is in a Robbie Obrien You tube clip, there is a list of his clips in the tutorial section here as well.


The one in the clip he is doing a bolt on tenon joint, the same jig set up can be made to do dove tails. Its possibly to much of a jig build for one guitar though.


the neck join clip
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yzlZvDyK ... r_embedded

[auscab]

I just measured Kinkade's plan, his dove tail is a crazy looking 26 degrees ,Actualy its 26 one side and 21 the other.
I'm sure I did mine between 8 and 10 degrees
Carbatec have two good bits one is an
8 deg that cuts 25.4 long
and a 14 deg that cuts 19mm long
both with 1/2 ' shank

The depth of Kinkade's is 16mm , I went deeper with that as well.

If you want to see a ballsy dove tail look about one third down the page of this link, double click it and it will enlarge.

http://www.frets.com/FRETSPages/Blogs/1 ... 126_1.html

[kiwigeo]

10deg is angle on the Stewmac dovetail cutter. Carbitool cutters dont come any lower than 15deg but that would be fine.

I agree 16mm is a bit shallow for depth of mortise..I go 20mm.

[nnickusa]

Hi all,

I haven't given up, nor used the beastie for a marshmallow roast---yet.

Finally ran out of excuses for not fitting the neck. A bit of a challenge for me on the first go, but it's rock-solid, even if it's not beautiful. The nasty bits will be covered by the fretboard, but.

Here's where I am today. Tomorrow, the truss rod installation....waiting on a fret saw to arrive, as all mine are pretty catcus..

[nnickusa]

Don't know why I couldn't edit my previous post to add a comment, but..

I'm not too sure about the bridge yet, but it's a work in progress...

Also, failing to find a router bit deep enough, I did a multi-cut using dovetail and straight bits, and finished off by hand...Was going great, until I stuffed it up in the last second and had to use the shim trick...

[kiwigeo]

Don't know why I couldn't edit my previous post to add a comment, but..

I'm not too sure about the bridge yet, but it's a work in progress...

Also, failing to find a router bit deep enough, I did a multi-cut using dovetail and straight bits, and finished off by hand...Was going great, until I stuffed it up in the last second and had to use the shim trick...

It's generally a good idea to hog out with straight cutters and then do the final cut with a dovetail.

The bridge...mmmm..looks like a Klingon warbird. Not my cup of tea but that's just my personal taste which at times is questionable.

[nnickusa]

Exactly what I did. Clean out the center to proper depth, then hit the dove tail on the sides, leaving only a corner to clean out...

Same on the neck side...

problem I had was with the fitting after the cutting was done, but I figured it out next time round...

[woodrat]

next time round ...I would use a mortice and tenon joint?

[Nick]

Looking interesting Nick, I'm abit like Martin & not sure I like the 'heavy' looking bridge but it's not me that's going to own it! Did you undercut near the base of the dovetail? This can help seat the heal snuggly against the sides and make for an almost 'invisible' join.

[nnickusa]

I'm thinking about mortise and tennon next time...Seems, from the video that was posted here earlier that it's a much quicker way to do it. I did want to try the dovetail first. In fact I was just following the book.

As to the shape of the bridge, I had an idea, but I don't think I like the way it looks--both "Batman" and too big for the guitar. Some ideas don't necessarily translate well into reality

I wasn't aware of bridge weight being a significant issue, but will weigh it today. I do think I'm going to change it....If I stuff up, a new bridge blank is only $10, so I can always start over....

[woodrat]

Nick, I do not use ebony anymore because of the weight. Rosewood usually comes in at about 30g. You can shave that too to about 24 if you take a lot out of the bridge from the line of bridge pins back. They no longer look "trad" but they will make the guitar louder as F=ma and you have lowered the mass therefore the acceleration will be larger for the same string force. I didnt really know just how critical this was until I started to get into the Trevor Gore approach to the guitar. I use the word approach because that is what it is, a whole approach to the subject of making an efficient guitar. None of the stuff he talks about is new (after all its physics going back at least to the days of Sir Isaac Newton) but he has collated it through experiment and experience into his approach and I believe that it is a very good approach and one that I feel can benefit all makers. i know it has benefited me as the guitars that I have made post reading his book are much better than those that came before. I have made 5 guitars using parts of his approach (it takes time to be able to change direction and there are so many things to consider) and they are much richer sounding. There are quite a few innovative things in there as well and new skill sets to develop so it will take me a while to fully implement all the things that I want to from "the Book"...I am just glad that he wrote it!
You are at an exciting stage though. The Cumpiano book is a good starter as it covers most things very comprehensively. A few things about it though...dont do the mortice and tenon joint as described in the book...even Wm Cumpiano does not do it that way any more (see this website). He does not describe dished work boards in the book but they are invaluable and I started using molds after about 5 guitars building "free" as described in the book. I use a mold like the one in the Kinkaid book (I think you have it).
Have a great time learning as I am sure you are.....you will need to get a few under your belt so keep going and dont be afraid to make a mistake....I dont like them but I try to learn from each one I make:)

John

[auscab]

but they will make the guitar louder as F=ma and you have lowered the mass therefore the acceleration will be larger for the same string force.


John

Hi John F= ma ?

can you spell that out for me please ?

ma is mass ? whats the F ?

[woodrat]

Hi Robert, ....Force equals mass times acceleraton

John

[Tod Gilding]

John, what is that language that you are speaking, I think it's Goreish

[nnickusa]

Thanks for the encouragement John. I'm sure most of you guys re-live your early mistakes vicariously thru us new guys...

This is truely an exciting time for this project...

1. I have what looks like a guitar, and not a collection of pieces

2. Today I routed for the truss rod, but have a bit more to go before it's done...I'm taking it slowly, but have stopped dithering and just get into what needs to be done....

3. Tomorrow I finish off the trussrod, and filler, and cut the frets, and shape the fretboard to fit....then I go to work.

I've decided to redo the bridge to another profile, as I think that will work better....

I did use the dished boards, and I think it's a really good idea....I also think I'll get more reference material along the way, but at the moment it's easier to follow Kinkade and see what I end up with, rather than muddle-up my old head with too much information....

In all honesty, I think I'm gonna need to put a couple more guitars up for sale to fund this "hobby..."

Is that what we call it?

Cheers,
Nick

[woodrat]

No Nick...Its a full Blown Addiction You just have the first symptoms!

Tod, Its Newtonian....or is that Newtonese(?)

John

[kiwigeo]

2. Today I routed for the truss rod, but have a bit more to go before it's done...I'm taking it slowly, but have stopped dithering and just get into what needs to be done....

You're routing the truss rod channel after shaping neck? I generally do it while the neck is in blank form and Ive got a square blank side to register the router fence off.

[nnickusa]

According to Kinkade, this is how he does it. In fact, with the dovetail, it seems to make sense....since I need to go thru the neck block as well...

I made this jig..aligned to the centre of the neck and guitar.....saves the trouble of trying to get the neck and neck block the same---I guess

Don't know why the photo's not loading, but ten minutes and nothing. Will try again in a bit..

[nnickusa]

This is the jig

brunswick rose 005 (Small).JPG (78.52 KiB) Viewed 18965 times

This is the result

brunswick rose 004 (Small).JPG (90.74 KiB) Viewed 18965 times

[kiwigeo]

Looks fine for the way Kincaid fits the truss rod...was just curious.

I have Kincaid's book but haven't found much reason to refer to it......I tried his method of clamping the top and back while gluing up with the screw down plate he uses and had a disaster on my hands. Given the choice of Cumpiano's book or Kincaids' Id probably go for Cumpiano's despite the fact it's dated in parts. Personal choice to some degree and also the way Ive developed my own building process.

[nnickusa]

Well, I had to do a bit of tinkering, as he doesn't use a dual action truss rod, but it'll work out fine, I reckon..

I used his screw down caul for clamping, and it worked a treat...might have been beginner's luck, but I found it quite easy...

I'd guess that my techniques and practices will evolve along the way, but I think the Kinkade book is mostly good, quite comprehensive, but thin in a few areas that I'd like to see more information...

As I mentioned previously, I will likely look for more resources as I go along in this "hobby" but I don't really want to get too involved in alternative methods and ideas just yet. I'll let time deal with that....

Cheers,
Nick