Anyone used vacuum jigs

[Dominic]

I have tried a vac bag for gluing fretboards. Worked fine if a bit cumbersome. I used a flat caul so it stay straight and epoxy glue. Also worked out a neat way of using vac to glue bindings to the fretboard that works perfectly. No gaps and the binding sits perfectly flush with the FB.
Slow your brain down, jump onto youtube, use google and you will find heaps of info and ideas. I sent around an article from the GAL journal by Charles Fox about why you should have vac in your workshop. Its a great article with many many cool ideas. I'll see if I can find it or perhaps someone else has it close at hand.
Cheers
Dom

[simso]

Thanks for everyones responses, Im stunned by the information out there on vacuum clamping, and Ive never in 20 years given it a thought.

LMI even have the nifty guitar stand that works via vacuum as well. Certainly would make it easier when doing touch up buffing, currently I sit a guitar on the rubber workbench and lean the guitar into my body to compensate the torque from the hand bufffer, this whole vacuum thing has positives all around.

Im going to try and source a couple of old scuba tanks or an old compressor tank and set them up under the main work bench as reservoirs, I can see a lot of potential here.

How does one regulate the vacuum draw, is this simply by a shut of cock or can you actually buy regulators for this scenario.

I would like to come up with a fingerboard idea, never happy with the clamping setup for them, the only thing I can come up with so far is mulitple rings that you could run down the neck instead of clamps and evacuate the air which would cause a nice tight squeeze,

As I said, the mind is going a million miles an hr with ideas

For me this is probably comparable to an old timer who has only ever used chisels being handed a power tool for the first time. And suddenly opening the eyes and going wow this just got easy...

[jeffhigh]

Yes, obviously Dom is right you can glue on a fingerboard in a bag if you are doing it BEFORE the neck is installed to the body or even after if its a solid body, but you were asking about Violins and cellos and I didnt think you would be wanting to pull the necks off just to glue on the fingerboard.
You do not need a regulator, the pump will never pull more than a bit less than 1 Atmosphere but using the Joe woodworker setup with a well sealed setup will maintain a slightly lower Vacuum with a lot less pump run time,
With your cnc and duplicator, vacuum holding would be really worthwhile and you would want the full setup.

[simso]

The cnc has a built in vacuum bed, I just dont use it. It runs on three phase and is about 6500 watts of suction power. This clamping power Ive found to be unneccasary as double sided tape works pretty good for holding things still

[jeffhigh]

I guess that sort of power requirement is because the whole bed area is covered with open holes so there is a lot of flow needed to maintain a pressure differential.

[Kim]

How does one regulate the vacuum draw, is this simply by a shut of cock or can you actually buy regulators for this scenario.

Steve,

The Joe WW site has a foot operated switch available. Many of us with vacuum at the ANZL went in on a group buy and got the EVS kits with the foot controller and required fittings for a good price, but the truth is, the pedal is very good value regardless because the price is reasonable for the high build quality. They are supposed to be fixed but I made an angled jarrah base for mine to add some weight so it remains portable and the weight of the hose does not move it about on the floor.



http://www.veneersupplies.com/products/ ... tion.html#

Whoops, sorry...misread...there is a screw adjustable regulator in the JWW kit which allows you to set desired vacuum pressure cut off at the reservoir. There is a cock valve but it is either open or closed. If you did not have a foot controller, then you would bend down and use this to apply vacuum and remove vacuum from the work piece. The foot controller is good value because the only vacuum lost in the system is hat which was in the air line from the foot pedal up to the work piece...noth'in...This is great for repetitive quick clamping operations because even with a small volume compact reservoir like the twin 100mm pvc pipes in Joe's design, the vacuum pump will rarely need to run.

http://www.veneersupplies.com/products/ ... 8-NPT.html

Cheers

Kim

[Dominic]

Steve, glad you are getting so much fun out of thinking about vac. Some of us use the holding jigs, I love it and use it whenever I want to hold the guitar. Check back before you rush out and buy a bunch of stuff. Some it works good like the bridge clamp, but a holding disc in metal is not that great an idea in my mind. I changed my disc for a plastic one made out of chopping board plastic. Much more friendly on a finish. If your dish is aroud 15" radius so it fits backs, it will suck a top into that shape no trouble and I'm not sure that is a good think to do to a top.

Anyway, good luck with it all, take you time to get it right, I used old 20L gas bottle for my main tank and a 2l gas bottle for the buffer tank. Its really what you have around.
Merry Xmas to you and everyone else.
Dom

[simso]

Well still waiting for LMI stuff to arrive, frustrating, Ive got to give stewmac one thing if you place an order on a monday by friday its delivered to your door here in australia, there postal service is very good.

Ive ordered a vacuum pump, waiting for it to arrive from qld, but I was in bunnings today and they had this little unit on a clearance 100 bucks.

Thought it would work great as a vacuum pump assembly, swap out the gauges and the pump and should be good. Well I hope so

[Kim]

Great pickup Steve, should work out perfectly.

Cheers

Kim

[kiwigeo]

If the thing blows up (I give it 6 months before it sucks itself to death) it'll make a dandy drinks table.

[simso]

Why do you think it will implode.

The tanks equal 20 litres, so being a newbie at this vacuuming world, Im assuming a 20 litre vac'd tank should be enough to hold a bridge down for 30 minutes.

Ill swap out all the fittings on the front and turn it into a mobile work centre.

Couldnt believe my luck when I saw the thing.

[Kim]

Steve am I correct to assume you intend to retro fit a Joe Woodworker EVS system into that compressor? If so it will be ideal, the tanks and frame should be perfect.

http://www.joewoodworker.com/veneering/EVS/concept.htm#



Cheers

Kim

[simso]

Kim,

Thats exactly what I intend to do.

In the short term, whilst waiting for parts it will simply be the pump hooked up to the tanks, as soon as I can get the kit from those guys I will retro fit it to the whole system.

I read your other thread and had decided to definetly make one, but being time poor, that is when I get a chance to have a weekend of I take it off. I had this whole system in the want list but back burner time list... I saw this complete unit whilst perusing bunnings isles looking for plumbing for the home hydroponics , and went what the, that will do just fine.

Pleased as punch having found them.

[kiwigeo]

Why do you think it will implode.

I can't think of the last time I bought anything from Bunnings that lasted longer than 6 months. The Ozito router I bought lasted 5 minutes and went straight in the bin once I noticed the depth stop kept changing its setting as soon as the cutter hit wood.

Im sure you'll occasionally find something that will go the distance..hopefully this is the case with your compressor.

[simso]

Ahhh, now that makes sense.

The compressor pump, the heart of this unit is going straight into the bin. The tanks are aluminium so if they ever split I can tig them back up. The gauges are going in the bin and same with the piping. Im only keeping the tanks and the base frame so hopefully all will be good.

I had an ozito router that did 142hrs of recorded non stop routing before it gave up the ghost, best 36 bucks I ever spent.

[kiwigeo]

I had an ozito router that did 142hrs of recorded non stop routing before it gave up the ghost, best 36 bucks I ever spent.

Ah yes...there are stories going around about this router....the day it was made the Ozito QC man was off work sick.

[simso]

Nah, it lasted a bloody long time and did a sensational job becuase I strapped it up to a cnc machine I had just made, I thought I would simply go a cheap option whilst in the learning stages of using cnc, but with the correct feeds and speeds being used this little router went the distance and only got replaced becuase it eventually had to much bearing run out. But I had logged a lot of non stop hrs of routing as recorder by the cnc software.

The difference I see between cheap and quality, is quality is made with the full knowledge the user will push it beyond what it was designed for, the cheaper stuff is designed solely on a design idea, when its pushed beyond the specifications it was designed for it fails catastrophically.

[Kim]

The difference I see between cheap and quality, is quality is made with the full knowledge the user will push it beyond what it was designed for, the cheaper stuff is designed solely on a design idea, when its pushed beyond the specifications it was designed for it fails catastrophically.

+1

Must say that Festools take it up another notch though. Along with the hideous price tag come a tool that is reliable as all get out (even Makita), repairable even after 10 years of hideous abuse, and always magnificently thought out for ease of use and accuracy....All things considered, there's still nothing to match them IMHO

It hurts, but you do get what you pay for.

Cheers

Kim

[simso]

Unfortunatley brand names dont always mean accident free, I had a metabo angle grinder, top quality stuff, they have an internal plastic fan that spins on the opposite side of the cutting blade ""internally"", apparently this helps with prevention of overheating, I was using the grinder to cut through some steel, the internal fan seized up and exploded and the shear force of this broke my right hand.

Even good stuff unfortunatley can and does fail.

[auscab]

Ive ordered a vacuum pump, waiting for it to arrive from qld,should be good.

Hi Steve ,
I bought my pump from QLD ,is yours from ATL Composites ? which is where I got my one from.
It has been a good unit, but I fear I may have damaged it, I might have to get it checked out. I was trying to see if I sucked the atmosphere out of a bottle that contained silica beads, if they would change from pink back to blue, indicating that all moisture had been taken off, the beads stayed the same colour and the pump stopped working if anything left the bottle and went through the pump it was invisible to the eye. none of the beads went through.

http://www.atlcomposites.com.au/atl_composites/

Was the Matabo a big 9" grinder ? one of my favorite grinders is a Metabo.sounds like a unlucky way to break a hand.

I like the Ozito heat guns, good value. last just as long as expensive ones.

[kiwigeo]

I was trying to see if I sucked the atmosphere out of a bottle that contained silica beads, if they would change from pink back to blue, indicating that all moisture had been taken off, the beads stayed the same colour and the pump stopped working if anything left the bottle and went through the pump it was invisible to the eye. none of the beads went through.

Silica gel needs to be warmed up to drive off moisture......we use the stuff for drying the rig air that feeds our gas chromatography equipment out on the oil rigs. We have drying ovens so silica gel gets put in the oven on low heat on a large dish to dry out.

[simso]

I bought my pump through ebay so I dont have high expectations.

Kiwi nailed it on the head re silica, you need to dry them in an oven, I used to be in the miltary as a jet engine mechanic and worked in a full overhaul shop, we would ship jet engines around australia and the world, used to wrap those things up tight with super dry silica bags inside and glad wrap every where

The angle grinder was just a 4 inch unit, but enough force still to break my hand

[simso]

LMI stuff arrived today,

Ive got two bridges that I took off today and need to be refitted tommorrow, dont know whether to try and set this stuff up and use it tommorrow or just wait and do some scrap practice runs.. I kind of know the answer practice on scrap, but patience is not a virtue for me.

Dilemmas,

[Dominic]

Steve, your set up looks good. What are you going to use for the buffer tank? One of the two tanks or add another one? I had a 2 litre gas bottle from a handheld torch as my buffer with the 20 litre gas tank for my main tank. Both work really well and should last for ever.

If you are going to try gluing a bridge you really need to see how much the pump is pulling first. If it is too low you will not get a decent glue joint. I got a couple of extra gauges from Joe. My pump sits outside the workshop, it runs on oil and can put up a fine mist so I didn’t want it in the workshop. Although where it is I can’t see any residue or anything so it must be a tiny amount. I have the trim pot and gauge along with a manifold and taps on the wall inside the shop. I always check the vac on the gauge to ensure I am getting the vac I want. Over 20Hg is good, I set mine to keep the vac around 25Hg.
The food switch is invaluable also as it does not waste vac when you use it. I can glue a bridge with the foot switch and the pump does not come on, there is enough vac stored in the tanks.

For connectors, I use pisco type fittings, I found a kitchen/office water purification place in Canberra that sold them. Very cheap but high quality and easy to use fittings that do not leak. It is what LMI uses on the bridge clamp and other vac jigs. I buy solid tube about 6mm OD and you just push the end into the fitting and it seals very securely. Push the ring back and the tube can be easily removed. They have taps, and Ys, and all sort of joiners for your project. The tube is about 50cent per metre and a tap is less than 10bucks. Much better than using compressed air fittings. http://www.profileautomation.com.au/res ... -m5t_1.pdf

Vacuum removes moisture from air so the trick on the silica beads should work without heat. They will give up moisture in order to equalise the moisture in the beads with that in the air around it. The opposite to how they operate in reducing moisture levels in the air but taking it in and storing it in the crystals. Its probably easier to do it in the oven but I’d be interested to see how it works with decent vac.

Good luck with it all.
Dom

[kiwigeo]

Vacuum removes moisture from air so the trick on the silica beads should work without heat. They will give up moisture in order to equalise the moisture in the beads with that in the air around it. The opposite to how they operate in reducing moisture levels in the air but taking it in and storing it in the crystals. Its probably easier to do it in the oven but I’d be interested to see how it works with decent vac.

Heating silica gel is the standard method of drying the stuff out. You may get moisture out by applying a vaccum to the hydrated gel but it will take ages.

Note that silica gel is not toxic but the chemicals added to the gel to indicate level of moisture are toxic. Dont let your kids or pets near the stuff.