Uke Project - Very Slooowww Take Off

[vandenboom]

I put up a post about 6 months ago about an idea to run a uke building course for some of the local indigenous kids in East Arnhem where we currently live. What I thought was going to be a straight forward, low key project was taken on by the local school as an after hours project and has become bigger than Ben Hur for a range of reasons. I bought some kits and stewmac tools about 4 months ago but still have been able to start. Things move very slowly around here. Anyway, looks like I will get the go ahead in a week or so, so I am starting to think about it more seriously and was hoping I could ask some questions along the way as they arise.
I and making Concert uke's, bought the Waverly Plans and have a workboard generously provided by Localele with the kits.

Headstock scarf joint : The waverley plans have the join back into the neck shaft region rather than in the headstock region. I understand you can do it that way on guitars as well. Is there a reason for doing it one way or the other on a uke?

Neck shaping/carving : I am using spanish heel method. Would you generally carve the neck and finish head stock before gluing sides in to heel block?

head block rebate : I presume you need to route or chisel out a little rebate in the headblock forward of the slots which hold the sides so that the top can slip under? Does that sound right?

uke heelblock.gif (3.38 KiB) Viewed 19121 times

Thanks. Frank.

[charangohabsburg]

Headstock scarf joint : The waverley plans have the join back into the neck shaft region rather than in the headstock region. I understand you can do it that way on guitars as well. Is there a reason for doing it one way or the other on a uke?

I think it's just a matter of aesthetics and taste (and neck blank lengths available). Do whatever meets more your taste.

Neck shaping/carving : I am using spanish heel method. Would you generally carve the neck and finish head stock before gluing sides in to heel block?

Finish or almost finish the head stock and shape the heel, but leave the straight neck section square because it hets clamped so much easier (think of the fretboard that has to be glued on).

head block rebate : I presume you need to route or chisel out a little rebate in the headblock forward of the slots which hold the sides so that the top can slip under? Does that sound right?

That's correct.

Cheers,

[ernie]

Threaded inserts 2 10-32 work very well for a bolt on for tenor ukes . I use a threaded allen key bolt called capscrew, easier for kids than spanish heel. One can also epoxy a butt glued joint using 24 hr epoxy

[Allen]

Great to hear that you get to start on this Frank.

I always would do the scarf joint in the head stock area and never under the fret board. If you want to get flash with it, then a peg head veneer on both top and back will hide the join very well.

You don't have to get the neck complete before glueing in the sides, but at the very least do the the heel and out to about the 9th fret. I've found that not shaping the round on the back of the neck until after the fret board goes on makes clamping a lot easier. It also helps with those students who get a little too keen and carve the neck narrower than the fret board. Really difficult thing to fix after you find they've gone too far.

Yes, you need to cut a rebate for the top on the heel block portion of the neck. I've used various methods from a laminate trimmer, table saw, and the one that Micheal and I have settled on is with the bandsaw. But it's not hard to do and use whatever tools you have available to you. Make sure that it is the exact depth of the top you are using though.

If you want our itinerary for what we do in the 4 day class I can email you a copy.

[vandenboom]

If you want our itinerary for what we do in the 4 day class I can email you a copy.

Thanks everyone for your replies. I will use a simple jig setup on a router table to cut the rebate to get the depth just right given the inexperience of students.
Allen - would be grateful for the itinerary. Micheal already sent me a CD of photos of your recent Cairns workshop which gave me a lot of info. But I'm interested in the order you did things to make best use of your time.

Thanks again everyone. Frank.

[Allen]

No worries Frank. See PM I just sent to you.

Much of the work that we did to get the class to go in 4 days, you'll end up doing with the students. But that is a good thing. Seems you have nothing but time on your hands up there and things will progress at their own pace.

[vandenboom]

Next batch of questions guys - thank you.
- Waverly Street plans taper neck thickness from 9/16" at 7th fret down to 13/32" at 1st fret. Does that sound about right?
- For a spanish heel, how thick do you leave the block inside of the slits for the sides? Does 3/4" sound about right?
- Would you fret the fboard before or after gluing it on?
- I have a workboard that Micheal gave me which has sound hole template cut into it. Would you simply use this with a laminate trimmer to cut the sound hole in the top?
thanks again. Frank.

[Allen]

I make my necks 13mm at the nut end and 15mm at the 12th fret. Taper from there. I like the look of the taper to the neck. Though we have both made them straight right through at 13mm.

Neck block inside is usually around 20mm but sometimes for no reason at all I make them 25.

The sound hole in the work board was put there to help with clamping the heel to the sound board. We don't use it for cutting the sound hole in the top, but if you wan't to try it that way I suppose you could.

We fret before glueing on.

[vandenboom]

Mainly another question for Allen/Micheal given my build method is using your workboard.
How do you go about gluing the first set of linings to the top?
Do you glue the linings to the bent sides first, then level, then glue to the top, or do you clamp the sides onto the top and then glue linings into the join, or is there some other way?
Thanks. Frank

[Allen]

Sides are glued to the end block first. Then after an hour or so the sides are glued into the neck/ soundboard assembly with a bit of glue on the side edges and tail block. So what you have is sides glued to the slots in the neck and glued to the soundboard.

Now you can glue the linings to the sides-soundboard. It's a bit like glueing in tentalons in a classical guitar.

I have a hell of a big stack of plastic pony clamps that are 70mm deep to aid in the glue up for classes, but you can just as easily hold the pieces of kerfing in place with your fingers while the glue grabs. I did this for the first 3 classes that I did, and Rick Turner does the same in his classes. Takes about 5 minutes for the glue (Titebond or similar) for you to be able to let the linings go.

You don't need to put the kerfing in all one go. Cut it up into manageable lengths. Neck block to first transverse brace. First transverse brace to second transverse brace. Second transverse brace to tail block. You get the idea. If you aren't under any time constraints like we are for our classes this will be dead easy.

[liam_fnq]

You can use tensile wire to hold the linings in place, braced from the linings on one side to the linings on the other side.

These days I glue the linings on first, level, then glue down.

[vandenboom]

Couple more questions guys, thanks again for your help, it is invaluable.
The Waverly plans I am referring to a fair bit for the build have a compensated saddle (3/32"), yet I have read on the forum that some of us don't bother. What's the go here?
Tuner peg holes for grover tuners: They seem to need two different diameter holes (6mm for lower bit and either 9mm or 8.5mm for top bit - not sure which yet. 9mm seems a little loose but 8.5mm is to tight. Should I ream the top hole a smidgeon? I will need to make a little jig to get concentric holes in the right spot and wondered how others do this?

Thanks again. Frank.

[Allen]

The saddles aren't sloped back like you would see on a steel string guitar, but you can add some compensation to the entire saddle. It really depends on the string choice, scale length and action on what's going to work out best. I've used the StewMac numbers for mine and then taken just a tiny bit off. Seems to work out for me with most string choices except for the very thin Martin brand.

Not sure what turners you are using. The Grover Statites I use need a 1/4" hole for the shaft and the head plate side needs to be counterbored for the bushing. I use one of the StewMac bushing counterbores. Not entirely sure what the exact size is though. I've got a few of them at different sizes and your right. One will be just a hair too tight and one just a bit too loose. The other is just right.

[vandenboom]

Micheal included the following sample bridge in the kits supplied.

PB290216.JPG (45.95 KiB) Viewed 18639 times

I understand there are a couple of ways of attaching strings at the bridge but was unsure of what the intention is with this design. Do you drill string holes through the back of the bridge on an angle up into the semi-circular rebate, or do you drill down through the rebate so the strings (with ball ends) sit against the bridge plate?
The strings I've got don't have ball ends.
Thanks. Frank.

[vandenboom]

...another bridge question. When gluing the bridge, how do you clamp it on? The only clamps I have with the required throw are cam clamps and they don't fit through the sound hole.
Perhaps I could stack some small blocks in the soundbox to support the top, and then just clamp down from above. Could be a bit risky if the packing blocks don't have a snug fit!!
Thanks again. Frank.

[Allen]

It's a tie block bridge Frank. Just like on a Classical Guitar. Drill 4 holes from the tail block edge of the bridge into the area where the cove bit has cut a trough. We put them on a slight angle as you asked.

If you've followed the plan, then spacing is going to be 42mm at the bridge. Gives 13mm between strings at the bridge and 10mm at the nut.

As far as clamping goes, you need a clamp that has 3 1/2" reach. In the class, because we have so many students, just one clamp with a caul on each side is used. In the workshop I use 2 just because. Those clamps were pretty difficult to source and we ended up getting 30 of them from "The Adjustable Clamp Co." out of the USA.

For your needs I'd suggest a inside support and clamp from top to back, or a couple of go-bars. They don't need crushing force, just enough to hold them while glue sets.

[vandenboom]

Thanks again Allen. Hope to complete my first crack at this this weekend. Have had just 2 students along the way because of time constraints. All going well and has allowed me to get the necessary jigs made in preparation for future projects next year.
A couple of quick setup questions if that's ok....
Nut slots - do you use a similar technique to guitars i.e. press string at 3rd fret and look for minimal clearance on first fret, or is there some other indicator/measure?
Action - What string heights do you aim for at 12th fret?
Thanks. Frank.

[Allen]

Similar to guitar in that when fretted at the 3rd the g,e and a strings should have about a cigarette papers thickness between the bottom of the string and the top of the fret. The C sting needs just a tiny bit more.

As for action at the 12th fret 0.090" is considered medium action. All across the strings.

Easy way to get this really close first time up is to have a straight edge, a 1/8" spacer (drill bit works really well) and a small ruler. Now place the 1/8" spacer up against the 14th fret and then put the straight edge so one end rests on the first fret and overshoots the saddle location with the spacer trapped underneath at the 14th fret. If you put the spacer at the 12th fret the action will be too high. Then measure from the bottom of the saddle slot to the edge of the ruler. This will tell you how tall to make the saddle for pretty much spot on action at the 12th. You should end up with a measurement of between 6.5mm and 7.5mm. We designed everything to have 7.0mm of saddle, but with all projects made from wood variations do occur.

[vandenboom]

The strings I got with the kits included a high G. I only just saw on Hana Lima web site that you can get sets that include a low (wound )G string.
What's the go here? Is it just a matter of preference?
I added about 1/16" compensation for the saddle. I wondered about this given the high (0.28") G string given that I didn't think you would want compensation in play there. Puzzled??
THanks. Frank.

[Allen]

Low G strings are primarily for Tenor ukes. You need the extra scale length for them to reach their potential. You can get them for concerts and even soprano's but they really don't work that well. The traditional uke sound is with the High G string. With the low G they sound more like a guitar. That's not a bad thing if you are tying to win over a guitar player who finds the idea of re-entrant tuning too distracting.

Straight across saddle with 1/16" compensation should have you right Frank. You will probably find that if you are really concerned with the set up that the C string can stand a little more compensation by filing the saddle. But in most cases you are good right out of the box. There is a lot more variation in playing technique.

[vandenboom]

Well my two apprentices and I finished our first concert ukes and are satisfied with the outcome as a first go.
Most importantly, we have mapped out our process and made a bunch of jigs along the way that should make it accessible to our indigenous students in the new year. Thanks especially to Allen but also to others who responded to my questions along the way.

To me, my instrument sounds ok but is clearly built too heavily in a number of areas so I want to start to improve this in future builds.
I have read some reviews of available books and the message is the one offered via Stewmac ain't much chop but the HanaLima book is good.
Can you tell me if the HanaLima one is helpful in guiding the builder in pushing the boundaries more to get better response?
Thanks. Frank.

[Allen]

Don't have the book Frank, so no help there.

Ukuleles are actually incredibly difficult to build well. It's one thing to put a good looking box together, it's quite another to have a responsive and lively instrument.

There is just so little string tension to drive them, that even the most subtle of changes can make or break them. Absolutely everything in the construction makes a difference. There is a bit of a conversation going on UU in the last week about getting better response, and some of the feedback is really good. One member who builds the most incredible Martin soprano copies says it's simple when you figure it out, but even the rosette makes a big difference to the tone and response....and he assures us that he's not kidding.

Not sure what top that Micheal sent you, but they all take a bit of time to break in. The New Guinea Rosewood sounds fantastic after a few months.

[vandenboom]

Not sure what top that Micheal sent you, but they all take a bit of time to break in. The New Guinea Rosewood sounds fantastic after a few months.

Yep, we have NGR, so that is is something to look forward to.
Thanks. Frank