How bad can a refinish touch up be

[simso]

I thought I would ask others what theyve seen, I got in today a cello for repair that has been "touched up" by someone else "paid job", the customer was not very happy with the finish. Ive taken photos Mmm what does one say

[simso]

Maybe I would say, you paid how much for that repair.. WT

[Tod Gilding]

That's a very ordinary repair , especially when you consider the time and effort that would have gone into it, But can I ask , What was the original repair ? was it just the touchup of the finish?

[Daniel_M]

Simso, I don't mean to be rude, but are you serious or having a joke - that was actually a repair?

[simso]

Im deadly serious, this was given to me to repair today, this was the job someone else has done and returned to the paying customer, it apparently just had a crack in the back for fixing, you can still see the crack through the layers of ??, im guessing its a shellac finish.

Go figure, its not even close to the original colour. I cannot say to much becuase Im only going on what the customer has told me, they even gave me the luthiers name. But without both sides to the story you never know.

[kiwigeo]

The finish isnt too bad...considering it was probably applied with a 4" cheap as chips paint brush.

[Nick]

Perhaps the 'repairer' was going for that Fender artists re-issue sort of look? An exact copy of some famous Cello players instrument. Classic example of trying to colour match transparent colour in a small area, a good illustration for newbies when trying to explain why it pays to strip & refinish the whole back rather than spot fix!
The original repair was bad enough but I'm surprised the customer accepted it or did they refuse to pay & bought it straight to somebody who might do a better job? But as you say, without the other side of the story it's hard to know what the original repairers instructions were or whether he/she was told that what we see was fine with the customer. Some people prefer to be all sweetness & light in front of you then grizzle like hell to anybody that would listen!

[rocket]

What never ceases to amaze me is that some people have no pride in their work, lutherie or lawm mowing, one should have enough pride in what they do to at least produce a reasonable result, especially if a customer is willing to pay for your expertise. Good luck with the restoration Simso
Cheers,,,
Rod.

[simso]

Yeh, just surprised me, as I said I wasnt going to give the luthiers name, becuase I only have the persons statement, to this end we all have bad days, but thats just down right bad.

The customer only wants me to repair the damaged finish, not the whole lot, Im still discussing with them the validity of this and the difficulty in matching such a large damage area back in, how ever after the brief talking with them, Im getting frustrated with them as well...The cello is if your lucky a $200 dollar chinese cheapy...

It is a very good example of how not to mix and match a tone

[Daniel_M]

Wow,

But as you mentioned Simso, you don't know the other side of the story.

Good luck mate.

[Kim]

how ever after the brief talking with them, Im getting frustrated with them as well...The cello is if your lucky a $200 dollar chinese cheapy...

= why Kim will not do repair work any more.

For people who live and work within a society that not only has an expectation, but hold a firm 'demand' that remuneration of 'their' skill and input in the workplace will be at a level that will, at the very least allow them to function within that society, it is surprising how difficult it is for so many of them to understand why we, as skilled craftsmen and artisans who have invested considerable sums of money in tools, materials, and equipment, and many years of leisure time to develop those skills and the knowledge base required to pursue our passion, find it offensive when confronted by the hypocrisy of their view, that 'we' should work for a level of remuneration that is less than that required to function within their society, simply because 'they' were so cheap they chosen to purchase an instrument that was made in a country whose society is not afforded what they themselves insist upon.

A while before I stopped taking repairs altogether, I had a sign hung up in my shed. It had an arrow pointing north west with the words "Beijing 9303 km" because sometimes these people need some direction in finding reality.

Cheers

Kim

[Nick]

how ever after the brief talking with them, Im getting frustrated with them as well...

Maybe the luthier is being done a discredit after all then, maybe he/she was getting that pissed off too that in a fit of exasperation they did a quick job on it, handed it back no cost & told them to f**k off. I've had a few like that over the years that you just want them to take their guitar & go somewhere else (haven't done a patch up job to get rid of them though).
Kims comment reminded me of a marvelous story about a friend of mine (who is no longer with us unfortunately) who was a master craftsman used to make black powder guns & accessories in his spare time. He was commissioned once, to remake a broken rifle stock for a customer who had heard that he was the guy to see for a quality job. My friend duly made it & the customer was thrilled to bits with the end result, all hand chequered & carried out on a beautiful piece of English Walnut. But he scoffed & kicked up a fuss when he asked "How much do I owe you?" & was told "that would be $400 thanks". So my friend asked the customer how much he thought it was worth, the customer said "Oh,I would have expected to pay no more than $200"
Friend disappears into his shop with the stock & re-appears 30 seconds later....he'd fired up the bandsaw & cut the stock in half, handed one half to the customer & said "there you go,$200 worth". Would have loved to have seen the guys face but my friend had no time for dickheads .

[Daniel_M]

did he ask for the second piece at a discount?

[matthew]

it apparently just had a crack in the back for fixing, [...] But without both sides to the story you never know.

A crack in the back of a cello is not an easy repair to do well, as unlike a guitar back it has to support soundpost pressure. It can be an expensive repair even on an expensive instrument. Sometimes MORE difficult on a cheap instrument, because constructione methods are cheap not good. So on a $200 cello-shaped-object, who's going to pay a ot of money for a proper fix? it's not worth it.

While i agree it looks very shonky, it really depends on what the customer was told and what they paid for the repair.

It does seem a huge area of refinish for a simple crack. I would normally reglue the crack and just run a little touch-up varnish into the crack and or FP to level it. No need to sand back to bare wood ... and an almost impossible job to try to match the varnish colour on an area that size. But a crack like that needs reinforcement from the inside, at best an inlaid patch, at least an overlay patch. You can do the latter through the FFs at a pinch.

[rocket]

Looks like he's hit it with a Makita belt sander by the size of the bare patch that's got the pink primer slopped onto it

[kiwigeo]

... simply because 'they' were so cheap they chosen to purchase an instrument that was made in a country whose society is not afforded what they themselves insist upon.

Decent beer?

[simso]

Its interesting isnt it, as I said without both sides I cannot really comment on there work, but I can comment I would never let something like that leave my shop, I would decline the job rather than have something like this go out and be a representation of me.

Our work is our advertisement, imagine someone at the schools or stores saying WT when they see it, and then the owner saids yeh it was done by Joe X Blow down the road. "As I was told", super bad advertisement for your business

Ive quoted them a very reasonable touch up price, hopefully they will make a fast decision, so I can get it out of the shop.

[kiwigeo]

Looks like he's hit it with a Makita belt sander by the size of the bare patch that's got the pink primer slopped onto it

Looks more like he's hitched the cello to the tow bar of his ute and taken it for a drag around the block.

[rocket]

Hey Martin,, that's a bit unfair! you might as well say he's done a rough job of it, i think that's being a bit critical not everybody in the instrument repair field has hours to spend on doing a repair "IN A TRADESMAN LIKE MANNER". I would have expected you to be a bit more diplomatic in your critique of the cello job. Rod.

[kiwigeo]

Hey Martin,, that's a bit unfair! you might as well say he's done a rough job of it, i think that's being a bit critical not everybody in the instrument repair field has hours to spend on doing a repair "IN A TRADESMAN LIKE MANNER". I would have expected you to be a bit more diplomatic in your critique of the cello job. Rod.

Fair enough comment but if it had been me I wouldn't let an instrument leave my workshop in that state. Regardless of the economic reasoning behind it all, the end product is still an advertisement for your business. I'm not a cello expert but I do think I could have done a better job on the finish.

[rocket]

I agree whole heartedly Martin, but my last post was a sarcastic dig at the crap job that Simso has been asked to make good, i was trying to inject a bit of humor into the subject.
Cheers,,,
Rod.

[simso]

We all have those days, one of my guys, whose really an apprentice musical instrument repairer, had a few of jobs to do today. The first, was cut a bone nut for an epiphone, 2 hrs later and he cut one string too low, back to basics, he watched me do it.

Next was fit a replacement neck to a bass guitar, he kept stripping the heads out of the rear neck screws. he was screwing only the front down to start and then when he went to do the rear set of screws it would not seat..it was binding on the screws and against the pocket edges, again...

Then he had to fit a bridge onto an acoustic, he lined it all up with 1inch masking tape along the fingerboard to get his positioning lines. Then he glued and clamped the bridge in place, I came down from upstairs doing other work and I said, silly question is that Ummm tape still under the bridge, yep he clamped and glued the bridge on top of his layout tape........ One of those days, Im sure we all have them..

[kiwigeo]

I agree whole heartedly Martin, but my last post was a sarcastic dig at the crap job that Simso has been asked to make good, i was trying to inject a bit of humor into the subject.
Cheers,,,
Rod.

No worries Rod..I'm at work on night shift at the moment so sense of humour is at low ebb

[charangohabsburg]

Hi "simoso" (what's your name?), I am sure this piece of masking tape under the bridge won't make it's way out of your shop, will it?

I don't think the problem of the cello is the dodgy varnish over the crack+ area (which is just ok regarding the value of the instrument, without taking into account what the customer was charged for the crack repair) but that the customer did not expect that kind of "touch up"... or (worse) maybe the repairman who thought he could do a better job that he was able to do.

I have to confess that I also have done less than perfect repairs, BUT I did tell the customer what he will get for the price he was willing (was allowed) to pay, and I did tell him that I could do a better job but that it would cost more than a new instrument, so there was nearly no chance that there could arise a problem between me and him; the task was clear, the instrument had to be made playable again (which a "real" luthier was not able to do before - but it looked nicer than my solution). Of course, a less than (also visually) perfect repair can be a risky thing to do because normally you don't know what the customer, after the job is done decides to "have expected" from you before ...
But I also have to admit that my customer I am talking of (Jürgen Hübscher, director of "La Volta" - listen to the music he makes with his group of young people) is an extraordinary person, not looking for a bargain but facing the reality . (I was honoured to repair several guitarrones mexicanos for him).

[simso]

Its steve.

Yes he was very embarressed and apologetic about the tape under the bridge, especially after the days goings.. Bridge was removed job cleaned and started again.

We all have these days myself included, my personal worst, which I have no problems sharing.. was I had to do a conical radius fretboard 16-20 customers request, I cut the board to match the neck, set my jig, made and shaped the fretboard then layed my scale on it and cut the fret slots, only to stand back at the end to admire my work and realise in my daftness I laid the scale back the front.. duhh what a wasted afternoon, as I said we all have these days..