Lute Progress -

kiwigeo · Post by **kiwigeo** » Tue Jun 07, 2011 10:13 pm

Allen wrote:I like the way that just a couple of purfling lines continue on to the peg box. All of them would be away too much, and none would look unfinished.

That was the line of reasoning applied after consulting every picture I could of backs of pegboxes.

Nick · Post by **Nick** » Wed Jun 08, 2011 6:14 am

Tis looking puurdy my good sir, for sooth. I'd sort of pictured that all the purfs continuing up would be the way to go but just the outer ones have proved me wrong, breaks the pattern up nicely. I take it the screw hole gets a plug in it or do you just plate the screw in 24 carat gold?

& the offer to spin up some pegs still stand if required.

kiwigeo · Post by **kiwigeo** » Wed Jun 08, 2011 9:17 am

Nick wrote:Tis looking puurdy my good sir, for sooth. I'd sort of pictured that all the purfs continuing up would be the way to go but just the outer ones have proved me wrong, breaks the pattern up nicely. I take it the screw hole gets a plug in it or do you just plate the screw in 24 carat gold? & the offer to spin up some pegs still stand if required.

Hi Nick,

Yes the screw hole gets a plug...the hole was drilled with a countersink/drill bit. The primary function of the screw is to apply clamping pressure along the axis of the neck....I used it purely because I couldn't be bothered setting up a complicated clamping caul to enable application of along axis clamping pressure using conventional clamps.

Cheers Martin

J.F. Custom · Post by **J.F. Custom** » Wed Jun 08, 2011 9:36 am

The lute is looking fantastic Martin - tasteful and well executed.

They do have a very appealing form the old 'bowl backed' instruments; something of craftsmanship.

Not sure what the plan calls for but... The screw looks countersunk enough that you could always consider using a little rare earth magnet on the plug/cap, glued beneath to hold it in place. That way, removal in future would be easy with a second magnet should it ever be required. Just a thought.

Jeremy.

kiwigeo · Post by **kiwigeo** » Wed Jun 08, 2011 9:53 am

J.F. Custom wrote:
Not sure what the plan calls for but... The screw looks countersunk enough that you could always consider using a little rare earth magnet on the plug/cap, glued beneath to hold it in place. That way, removal in future would be easy with a second magnet should it ever be required. Just a thought.

Jeremy.

Hi Jeremy,

The end block into which the hole is drilled into gets beveled so a magnet probably wouldnt sit square in the hole. Plans call for a wooden plug to be glued in and beveled off with the block.

Cheers Martin

kiwigeo · Post by **kiwigeo** » Wed Jun 08, 2011 9:12 pm

A couple of more pics. I'm exhausted and goings on in Christchurch New Zealand have to take precedence from here so the lute project will be going on hold.

Allen · Post by **Allen** » Thu Jun 09, 2011 5:48 am

It's nearly a lute now and looking spectacular.

kiwigeo · Post by **kiwigeo** » Thu Jun 09, 2011 9:50 am

Positive comments appreciated...thanks.

Lute making is on the back burner for the next few weeks (months). I'm back at work next week and have a busy period ahead on the NW shelf. On the family front my father has finally been repatriated from Auckland back to Christchurch after being evacuated there following the last devastating earthquake in Christchurch New Zealand. Myself and my siblings have a long hard job ahead of us getting him back to health and unfortunately it's going to demand most of my free time over next few months.

Regards Martin

Nick · Post by **Nick** » Thu Jun 09, 2011 10:53 am

A thought just occured to me......What colour are you going to paint it? (got my money on Lime Green)

kiwigeo · Post by **kiwigeo** » Thu Jun 09, 2011 11:30 am

Nick wrote:A thought just occured to me......What colour are you going to paint it? (got my money on Lime Green)

Haven't you got a vibraphone to work on??

jeffhigh · Post by **jeffhigh** » Thu Jun 09, 2011 11:39 am

Good luck finding a case for that at your local music shop.
Looks beautiful. Hope you are successful dealing with things in NZ.

DarwinStrings · Post by **DarwinStrings** » Thu Jun 09, 2011 1:01 pm

Now there is a point Jeff, can we also see the progress pics of the case build Martin?

Jim

Nick · Post by **Nick** » Thu Jun 09, 2011 1:21 pm

kiwigeo wrote:
Nick wrote:A thought just occured to me......What colour are you going to paint it? (got my money on Lime Green)
Haven't you got a vibraphone to work on??

I'm going, I'm going

kiwigeo · Post by **kiwigeo** » Thu Jun 09, 2011 1:31 pm

DarwinStrings wrote:Now there is a point Jeff, can we also see the progress pics of the case build Martin?

Jim

Another wise guy!!

Kim · Post by **Kim** » Thu Jun 09, 2011 4:10 pm

DarwinStrings wrote:Now there is a point Jeff, can we also see the progress pics of the case build Martin?

Jim

To easy...couple of coles bags, fist full of axle grease, 3 cans of expanding foam and a Stihl and she's all done with time on ur hands to duck off down the pub to exercise the elbow with the boys.

Paul B · Post by **Paul B** » Thu Jun 09, 2011 11:23 pm

Why do you want all them thar holes in the peg-head? Are you trying to reduce weight? Feeling a little neck heavy is it?

F*ck, I'm funny.

Looking good Martin.

Paul B · Post by **Paul B** » Thu Jun 09, 2011 11:29 pm

Actually, I wonder what such a severe angle on the headstock (if that's the right term for a lute) would have on the balance on the instrument? It'd certainly pull the centre of gravity back in towards the body of the player wouldn't it? Hmmm, see what happens when you try to be a flippant smart arse? Gets you thinking...

Anyone tried to build one with a 15 degree angle on the headstock? Now, I'd bet that sucker was neck heavy.

kiwigeo · Post by **kiwigeo** » Fri Jun 10, 2011 9:41 am

Paul B wrote:Why do you want all them thar holes in the peg-head? Are you trying to reduce weight? Feeling a little neck heavy is it?

F*ck, I'm funny.

Looking good Martin.

26 holes Paul. This lutes a baby....6 double courses and a single chantrelle. Check out the peg boxes on a arch lute.....they have two of boxes to accomodate all the pegs.

kiwigeo · Post by **kiwigeo** » Fri Jun 10, 2011 9:51 am

Paul B wrote:Actually, I wonder what such a severe angle on the headstock (if that's the right term for a lute) would have on the balance on the instrument? It'd certainly pull the centre of gravity back in towards the body of the player wouldn't it? Hmmm, see what happens when you try to be a flippant smart arse? Gets you thinking...

Anyone tried to build one with a 15 degree angle on the headstock? Now, I'd bet that sucker was neck heavy.

Cant give you a straight answer Paul. On archlutes the peg box/neck angle is alot shallower. I'd say its to do with reducing stress on the pegbox/neck joint. With the angle close to 90degrees string pull is on the nut and then from the nut directly along the plane of the pegbox. With a 15 degree angle you'd have the strings tending to pull up the pegbox more. I suspect the integrity of the actual neck/pegbox joint (eg max gluing surface) also has something to do with it as well.

One more reason for the high pegbox/neck angle could be to bring all tuning pegs closer to the player.

Despite its apparent size in photos te lute is actually quite a small instrument. The scale length is only roughly 600mm on my lute. The instrument is also very light. The ribs are paper thin as is the top and the neck is really the only the substantial piece of solid wood on this instrument and that has a light core with veneer on the outside.

kiwigeo · Post by **kiwigeo** » Fri Jun 10, 2011 8:49 pm

One more pic. Everything ready to go for the top glue up.

kiwigeo · Post by **kiwigeo** » Sat Jun 11, 2011 4:17 pm

Despite other distractions today I managed to glue up the top. In second pic Im going around making sure the joint is good with a tacking iron.

rocket · Post by **rocket** » Sat Jun 11, 2011 5:02 pm

Some people on this forum blow my mind with the skill they have and the projects they tackle and produce such amazing instruments, fantastic work Martin, keep us posted.
Cheers
Rod.

kiwigeo · Post by **kiwigeo** » Sat Jun 11, 2011 5:29 pm

Thanks Rod,

Gotta get an archie under my belt before I can say I know what Im doing.

Kim · Post by **Kim** » Sat Jun 11, 2011 5:42 pm

I agree whole wholeheartedly Rod,

Martin is about to become one of the only real "Luthiers" on any of the forums...that is of course with a word definition of one who builds 'lutes'. Regardless this build has been great to watch as it has evolve into the beauty we now see before us, and I get the feeling that by the time Marty is done cleaning her up with turps and slapping a coat of gloss Estapol on there she'll look bloody bonza..

Great work Marty...surely you must be getting butterflys around this stage of proceedings I reckon..Well done mate.

Cheers

Kim

TKAY · Post by **TKAY** » Sat Jun 11, 2011 9:15 pm

Martin
Great to see the progress. We would all agree life not running smoothly in ones own house is bad enough without problems a "long"way away all, the best.

There have been comments regarding weight of lutes.Some years ago on another forum I was curious on weights and asked all.I quote from an experienced UK luthier some information regarding weights timber sizes etc.

" In looking at the records of the weights of all the lutes I have made over the years one thing is immediately apparent the main source of variation in lute weight of a particular size and type is the material used for the back,which for lutes (6-7course) accounts for about 40% of the total weight.So woods such as sycamore or yew produce a lighter instryment than rosewood or ebony.
Ebony veneers increase the weight of larger lutes(with more courses) quite a bit-also making them more or less top heavy and more difficult to hold.
6c lutes with unveneered necks weigh in at about 580-600gms for a 60cm model to 630-640g for a 67-69cm lute.The equivalent figures for 7c lutes with veneered necks are roughly 610 and 690g.My theorbo (86/164cm), with a cyprus back and veneered neck is 1670gm.
Perhaps the most interesting fnding is the weight of the soundboard.On a 7c 60cm lute.the soundboard might weigh about 65 to 75gm,but the bars add another 50g-so the total soundboard is roughly 40% bars!
This would be less for 6c lutes,where the soundboard may be thicker and barring less substantial."

The instrument I had at the time ,2005, was 10course 60cm and 650gms.
It was very live and spoke back to you!!
As always a fascinating forum, thanks to all envolved

Tom

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