Australian weed woods

[JJ model]

OK, I managed to click the right button.

[James Mc]

Jeff
My spelling is bad… but I’m sure my accent would be much worse

That is an amazing looking instrument, but I think I’d need an extra hand to play it and a few years more practice building before I tried to make one.

I was wondering if there are other woods you have worked with that would be of interest to luthiers in other countries? A guy I was working with over there had a locally made drum that was made from what we call beach almond or sea almond, maybe called ‘jelawai ketapang’ in Malaysia. It was very nice looking timber and the drum had a wonderful tone with amazing sustain. I think it would be a very interesting guitar timber.

[Dennis Leahy]

Hi Jeff,

Beautiful guitars!

I'm really curious how you decided to try Monkeypod as a soundboard. Was it after hearing other guitars or ukuleles with Monkeypod, or just a hunch from tapping it, or...

I've got an 8-string (a 6-string, with 2 harp bass strings) on the drawing board right now, and a "real" harp guitar sometime in my future, so I'd love to pick your brain as I get closer to those projects.

Don Alder is one of the best in the world, and could choose probably any luthier's harp guitar. You must be doing something VERY special!

Dennis

[JJ model]

No.1 MP doesn't have any tap tone like other tonewood ( sound like a cardboard ) When I first started mt first MP guitar, I was thinking of putting a pickup on and use it like an ordinary electric guitar. I've used Koa before and was thinking if Koa can make a good sounding guitar which I've tried tapping on some Koa I had and its about the same as the MP, then why not i try on MP. When I brought that 1st MP guitar to the GAL and the sound of that guitar during the blind test listening was so different from the rest then I decided to try another one after that and I was convinced that It was not a fluke! I know I'll be excommunicated from the luthier community for trying to prove that tap tone sometime doesn't work. There are guys who say that its only good for bowl turning and furniture but lets look on the positive side, I'm sure the first guy using BRW must have felt the same, Flamenco guitars are getting poplar with hardwood B&S nowaday. Its like tasting a real chunk of barbecue beef steak than the messed up hamburger, thats what I'm enjoying with the many alternative wood for guitar building...
Jeff

[James Mc]

And a cheer went up from the engineers in the peanut gallery ya ya ya woo woo woo who have suspected for many years that tap tone is a myth invented to add mystery to the art? of luthiery. But Jeff… you can’t say anything because without the added mystique provided by tap tone, most modern guitar makers would be carpenters not luthiers.

I’m sure the man credited with being the inventor of the modern guitar 'Antonio de Torres' would have some interesting thoughts on tap tome being applied to the back and sides of a guitar. He made a guitar with a good spruce top and papier-mâché back and sides to prove that the top is the really important part of a guitar when it comes to sound. You have to wonder how many flamenco builders who use Spanish cypress (better known in Australia as pencil pine) have puzzled over the tap tone question… it sounds kind of like MDF to tap.

So don’t worry about being excommunicated, I’m sure there are a great many people who would agree with you

[Rick Turner]

This chipping it up, burning it, turning it into paper bull s..t has simply got to stop. It's a horrible waste of timber that if not good for guitars and other instruments, can certainly be turned to better uses. I'm horrified by this practice of treating all trees as garbage.

[kiwigeo]

Rick,

Youre sounding like a native Tasmanian

[Rick Turner]

I'm getting there! In fact, I'll be there in about three weeks... And I will be trying to do something about all this...

[James Mc]

Hi Rick... Just went for a look at your site, wonderful instruments and some great innovations.

There was a great conservation project in 2000 that did a lot to bring much needed awareness to the tragedy that is woodchipping. It was called the One Tree Project and involved 45 Tasmanian craftspeople and artists using a 35 metre stringy bark valued at $100 as woodchips to make everything from furniture and musical instruments to jewellery and artworks. The products of their work were taken on tour around Australia and used to highlight how wasteful the Australian woodchip industry is.

[Paul B]

Unfortunately, 45 Tasmanian craftsperson just don't stack up against the couple of billion dollars that Gunns new pulp mill will inject into the local economy. I was all set to vote Labor on that issue alone.

Again, unfortunately, the new federal administration rubber stamped the Gunn's pulp mill proposal two weeks before it got elected. This project is a goer and there ain't no stopping it. I bet Garret must have thrown a shit-fit, I hope he did anyways.

So all the Myrtle, blackwood, etc etc that grows in their logging area will get turned into wood pulp, and then once it's shipped to Asia, toilet paper or what ever.

Seems the world would rather wipe it's ass on something nice and soft and absorbent than appreciate all the art work that could be produced with these materials.

Sad friggin state of affairs.

[Craig]

I feel absolute ANGER and frustration . These greedy pricks need bringing down somehow. To think it's all in the name of the mighty dollar. I picture a 500 year old Myrtle tree in all it's beauty , being cut down for some bastard to wipe his arse on . It just ain't right . I keep thinking the whole situation is so ludicrous , that surely it won't happen . Wish the majority of the population would 'Wake Up !'


Craig

[Sam Price]

I was talking about this issue to my husband- that beautiful wood is being turned into pulp- that could well drive down the prices that some Luthier supplies like to rip us off with, and with the proliferating and slightly false rumour that all hardwoods are becoming low in quantity (the truth is, SOME is becoming rare), drives the prices even higher.

It actually angers me. It gets me down to think that goregous Tassie Blackwood is getting flushed down the loo. It's the same old story- our terribly excessive and totally uneccessary greed and waste is what is destroying our planet, not legitimate use.

Hardwood IS expensive in the UK- and the prettier, the more expensive, despite high availability or not. I am so cheesed off with having to pay overinflated prices.

[Kim]

Oh come on guys, ease up a bit. Lets look at the positive points which support the argument for the devastation of our forest by Gunns.



I can nearly see my place from here now

Not so Cheery

Kim

[Dave White]

Rick, Paul, Craig, Sam and all,

I agree 100% with you all that the turning of ancient forest into toilet paper is arrogant, abhorant and undefensible but doesn't it just mirror the "values" that a lot of the so called "advanced" nations seem to worship right now? There is no respect for the natural resources and how we use them - throwaway seems to be the buzzword. Irrespective of the properties, that's why I like using things like fish and animal glues - if you have to kill to live then respect and use everything. The native American Indians used the brain of the buffalo they killed to cure the hide - it was just the amount needed - and every part was used somewhere. The European settlers that became "Americans" just wiped the lot out and left it to rot. It's also why I make multi-piece backs and tops. I can't and won't waste.

One interesting point though that Dr Iain Stewart made recently in the excellent BBC series "Earth: The Power of the Planet" - mankind isn't destroying the planet. Only the sun exploding or a full-on collision from a really big asteroid would do that. The earth has suffered many. many "catastrophies" in it's history and is still here and has regenerated from each and every one of them - a bit like Doctor Who. One of them spelled the end for dianasours and gave man it's chance. 500 years is nothing in the earth's history, neither are millons of years. The forests will regenerate. What mankind is destroying is itself - and given our current behaviour and values it's probably the best outcome Then again - that just sums up our arraogance I suppose - we think we ARE the planet.

Rant over . . . wow that felt good!!

[Sam Price]

Excellent post, Dave.

Unfortunately a disposable culture goes hand in hand with a prosperous economy.

[Bob Connor]

I'm totally against the bloody thing too but some facts are needed here.

A lot of the argument against the Pulp mill in the Tamar Valley is based on environmental issues which include pumping the waste into Bass Strait and air pollution in the Tamar Valley.

The area from which the pulp mill will initially source it's wood for this pulp mill is in the Northeast of the State - mainly around Ben Lomond and Blue Tier with some of it coming from the Western Tiers. Some of it is plantation, some regrowth forest and some virgin forest will be logged.

The Western Tiers might be a worry as some concession areas may be on the edge of where the the temperate rainforest start.

The Northeast area of Tassie is predominantly dry sclerophyl forest, ie Eucalyptus.

Blackwood, Myrtle and Sassafras don't grow in that area of the state.

They are found in the temperate rainforest areas which are found in the west of the state some 2-300 kilometres away.( but starting in the Central Highlands ie Western Tiers)

If Gunns ever tried to get into the Tarkine Forest areas of the Northwest ( which I'm sure they would if they could) to clearfell for woodchips there would absolute, instant and universal condemnation to such a proposition.

I don't think John Gay the CEO of Gunns would be so arrogant to think he could get away with it. (mind you he is the most instantly dislikeable, arrogant little slimebag I've ever had the displeasure to meet and I wouldn't put anything past him)

The issue in Tassie has always been sutainable forestry practises. And projects like this which have been fast tracked and have side stepped some of the environmental impact requirements, leave much doubt as to whether the dry sclerophyl forest of the northeast can sustainably feed the machine.

What happens if the resource runs out and there hasn't been enough plantation eucalypt propagated to sustain the ongoing operation the mill.
I'm sure you will find Gunn's bleating at the government to be given concessions into other forest areas.

Gunn's already operate in the Tarkine area for lumber and veneer. Britton Brothers and Corinna sawmillers likewise, and this has been done for the last 100 years. The Sassafras Dready that I'm building was bought from Gunn's lumber yard in Launceston. ie it is proven to be sustainable.

There is a huge push to have the Tarkine area designated as a National Heritage area. It is one of two remaining rainforest areas in Australia ( the other being in far North Queensland) it is also a remnant to the Gondwana super continent with Myrtle and Huon Pine having grown all across Gondwanaland. This would definitely affect our tonewood supply.

Obviously there is more profit in woodchips than processing veneer or lumber (which is much more sustainable as an industry in a state the size of Tasmania.)

The Forestry Industry in Tassie has not been well managed for a number of years now. Many forests were raped and not replaced. If sustainability practises had been put in place years ago a mill of this size may have been viable but it my mind shouldn't go ahead anyway due to the fact that the effluent from the plant will be pumped directly into Bass Strait and it may contibute to air quality in the Tamar Valley which suffers already in winter due to an inversion layer over the valley.

Launceston has the highest proportion of domestic wood heating in the country and the inversion layer traps a smog over the city in winter mainly from domestic heating. Imagine what a large mill could potentially add to this.

The Tamar Valley is also one of the primo wine growing areas of the state.

I'm totally against the construction of this mill but probably for other reasons than tonewood destruction. Our guitar building woods are probably more at risk from the Tarkine area being listed as a National Park or the crooks and thieves that work for the forestry department. There are garages and sheds full of prime, figured Myrtle and Blackwood that are being pilfered by forestry workers now that they have realised the value of the wood.

For years the economic situation in Tassie has been worse than the mainland states. (and this started in the 1850's when a significant proportion of the poulation fled Tasmania in search of a quick buck on the goldfields of Ballarat)

Unemployment and cost of living has always been higher and there needs to be projects down there to provide employment and to throw dollars into the economy. However, not this project.

That's my take on the situation from someone who was born and lived in Tassie for 40 years. My family and friends are still all down there so I still keep abreast of what's happening from the point of view of the man on the ground.

Rant over

Bob
Proudly Tasmanian

BTW for those who don't realise Gunns'is the largest hardwood processor in Australia with significant Jarrah holdings in Western Australia.

[Rick Turner]

The reason it's so profitable must have to do with an incredible land grab or give away. And from what I've been told, Peter Garrett signed off (sold out?) on the pulp mill long ago. Some greens rot and turn brown...

[sebastiaan56]

Peter Garrett's band was Midnight Oil. They did very well on a social/environmental agenda. But the were getting stale so I think he went for the limelight in politics. Public attention deficit syndrome.

Both the "L" parties have the same attitudes to environment.

Very interested in your post Bob, makes me think that we need to find a higher value use for the Eucaplypts.

[James Mc]

I run a regional conservation group, pay sucks but is big in job satisfaction… especially when we got the wet tropics into World Heritage and kicked the American loggers out of PNG. Those were the days… seem long gone now.

Anyway “rot and turn brownâ€

[Hesh1956]

I just hope that there is enough forest left so that I can find something to cling onto when we all have to tread water from climate change....... I will admit in advance that I will be tapping the log that I hope to find.......

Welcome Rick!!!

[Tigermyrtle]

Bob,
i will have to correct you here on one of your comments that Sasafrass, Myrtle, Ect is not growing on the Northeast of Tassie, in fact some of the best Sasafrass logs i have seen have come from that way also thats where we will find the Dorral, Native Olive, Figured Blackwood, Musk, Ect, i could take you to areas up that way that i are being clear felled, but as Bob Dylan once said. The Times They are A- Changin. and i will keep working with this goal in mind to Value add Tasmanian Timbers, regards Bob.

I'm totally against the bloody thing too but some facts are needed here.

A lot of the argument against the Pulp mill in the Tamar Valley is based on environmental issues which include pumping the waste into Bass Strait and air pollution in the Tamar Valley.

The area from which the pulp mill will initially source it's wood for this pulp mill is in the Northeast of the State - mainly around Ben Lomond and Blue Tier with some of it coming from the Western Tiers. Some of it is plantation, some regrowth forest and some virgin forest will be logged.

The Western Tiers might be a worry as some concession areas may be on the edge of where the the temperate rainforest start.

The Northeast area of Tassie is predominantly dry sclerophyl forest, ie Eucalyptus.

Blackwood, Myrtle and Sassafras don't grow in that area of the state.

They are found in the temperate rainforest areas which are found in the west of the state some 2-300 kilometres away.( but starting in the Central Highlands ie Western Tiers)

If Gunns ever tried to get into the Tarkine Forest areas of the Northwest ( which I'm sure they would if they could) to clearfell for woodchips there would absolute, instant and universal condemnation to such a proposition.

I don't think John Gay the CEO of Gunns would be so arrogant to think he could get away with it. (mind you he is the most instantly dislikeable, arrogant little slimebag I've ever had the displeasure to meet and I wouldn't put anything past him)

The issue in Tassie has always been sutainable forestry practises. And projects like this which have been fast tracked and have side stepped some of the environmental impact requirements, leave much doubt as to whether the dry sclerophyl forest of the northeast can sustainably feed the machine.

What happens if the resource runs out and there hasn't been enough plantation eucalypt propagated to sustain the ongoing operation the mill.
I'm sure you will find Gunn's bleating at the government to be given concessions into other forest areas.

Gunn's already operate in the Tarkine area for lumber and veneer. Britton Brothers and Corinna sawmillers likewise, and this has been done for the last 100 years. The Sassafras Dready that I'm building was bought from Gunn's lumber yard in Launceston. ie it is proven to be sustainable.

There is a huge push to have the Tarkine area designated as a National Heritage area. It is one of two remaining rainforest areas in Australia ( the other being in far North Queensland) it is also a remnant to the Gondwana super continent with Myrtle and Huon Pine having grown all across Gondwanaland. This would definitely affect our tonewood supply.

Obviously there is more profit in woodchips than processing veneer or lumber (which is much more sustainable as an industry in a state the size of Tasmania.)

The Forestry Industry in Tassie has not been well managed for a number of years now. Many forests were raped and not replaced. If sustainability practises had been put in place years ago a mill of this size may have been viable but it my mind shouldn't go ahead anyway due to the fact that the effluent from the plant will be pumped directly into Bass Strait and it may contibute to air quality in the Tamar Valley which suffers already in winter due to an inversion layer over the valley.

Launceston has the highest proportion of domestic wood heating in the country and the inversion layer traps a smog over the city in winter mainly from domestic heating. Imagine what a large mill could potentially add to this.

The Tamar Valley is also one of the primo wine growing areas of the state.

I'm totally against the construction of this mill but probably for other reasons than tonewood destruction. Our guitar building woods are probably more at risk from the Tarkine area being listed as a National Park or the crooks and thieves that work for the forestry department. There are garages and sheds full of prime, figured Myrtle and Blackwood that are being pilfered by forestry workers now that they have realised the value of the wood.

For years the economic situation in Tassie has been worse than the mainland states. (and this started in the 1850's when a significant proportion of the poulation fled Tasmania in search of a quick buck on the goldfields of Ballarat)

Unemployment and cost of living has always been higher and there needs to be projects down there to provide employment and to throw dollars into the economy. However, not this project.

That's my take on the situation from someone who was born and lived in Tassie for 40 years. My family and friends are still all down there so I still keep abreast of what's happening from the point of view of the man on the ground.

Rant over

Bob
Proudly Tasmanian

BTW for those who don't realise Gunns'is the largest hardwood processor in Australia with significant Jarrah holdings in Western Australia.

[Tigermyrtle]

Well i have found all of your comments in this discussion very interesting, now if we had found ways 40 years ago to Value add our Timbers down here in Tasmania well we would not have the problems we now have, now as far as i know i am the only one here in Tasmania that replants minor species in areas where i salvage, lets see a few of you Luthiers out there kick up a stink to Mr Garrett and if you have some time to spare go out there and plant some trees,

I feel absolute ANGER and frustration . These greedy pricks need bringing down somehow. To think it's all in the name of the mighty dollar. I picture a 500 year old Myrtle tree in all it's beauty , being cut down for some bastard to wipe his arse on . It just ain't right . I keep thinking the whole situation is so ludicrous , that surely it won't happen . Wish the majority of the population would 'Wake Up !'


Craig

[Kim]

Yep, no two ways about it, after a hard day salvaging and tree plant'in there's nothing like a good root in the back of your trailer to make a man feel like it's all been worth while.

Cheers

Kim

[Tigermyrtle]

i must agree Kim, i cant stop laughing that was a 500 year Old Root,
i am getting desperate these days, even if i can't build Guitars yet at least i can come here for a good Laugh. cheers Bob,

Yep, no two ways about it, after a hard day salvaging and tree plant'in there's nothing like a good root in the back of your trailer to make a man feel like it's all been worth while.

Cheers

Kim