Neck relief problem

[jeffhigh]

I don't actually measure either most of the time, just do it by eye and feel, but 0.5mm is about 3 times as much as I am looking for.

[graham mcdonald]

Jeff,

Remember that I am not putting a straight edge along the frets to check the relief. The string is not doing to sit precisely flat from the 1st to the 12th fret. It is going to curve up a little as it goes over the frets at each end. .5mm is not very much when you take that into account.

cheers

graham

[jeffhigh]

Jeff,

Remember that I am not putting a straight edge along the frets to check the relief. The string is not doing to sit precisely flat from the 1st to the 12th fret. It is going to curve up a little as it goes over the frets at each end. .5mm is not very much when you take that into account.

cheers

graham

Hi Graham, I avoid that kick up over the frets by pressing the string directly onto the fret rather than behind it.

It is worth playing around on an electric guitar or one with an adjustable bridge to understand the effects of relief.
With a dead flat neck and standard string height at the neck/ body junction, the guitar will tend to buzz at the cowboy chord position (frets 1-3) when played hard
Increase the relief to 0.5mm and then drop the string height at the neck/ body junction down to the same as you had before and the guitar will be buzzing from about fret 10 up.
Somewhere in between is that sweet spot where you get low string height and are free from buzz over the whole range of the fretboard.
For me that is 6-8 thou (0.15-0.20mm)

The OP was worried that he did not have enough relief and was considering fairly drastic measures to increase it.
I still consider it is pretty well perfect where he had it.
I would not however measure it sitting horizontally in a jig and with a straight edge.
Always in playing position and using the string as the straight edge.

Please don't think I am being argumentative or know it all here, I have been working to establish a business in guitar repair over the last 6 months and even after 40 years of working on my own instruments, I have learned so much about setup of guitars by reviving neglected and poorly adjusted instruments. Often the major factor is incorrect neck relief.

Cheers
Jeff

[graham mcdonald]

Whatever works for you and keeps your customers happy

I rarely work on electrics these days and I have always thought that they do need a slightly different approach than for acoustics with lighter strings and a lower action.

Good luck with developing your business. There is always a need for good set-up folks

cheers

graham

[auscab]

Thanks for the input back there Graham, much appreciated, as with the rest as well.

Things are sounding much better since the saddle was re shaped ,It's no where near perfect yet and I have new ones on the way, as well as a imperial action gauge.

Your right about the relief height there Jeff, at .20 mm I can get pretty much stuck in to it hard with a pick, and no buzz on the first five strings, not from the frets.

I had some small ones at the nut, and the top of the saddle is still flat so if strummed hard I can hear them ,but at nut and saddle what I can hear is different to what I had before with strings bouncing off the frets,

I still do have the 6th E buzzing if played medium,

At the moment the saddle sits out of the bridge at the 1st and 6th string 4 mm each side

At the 12th fret on 1st string I have 2mm and 6th I have 2.5mm

I will be happy to have it higher than that because it's amazing how the volume changes with the saddle going up and down and it will have to go up a bit to fix the 6th, and I like it loud,brush the strings and it lights up thing.

Glad I asked the questions here. Bonza gents.

A pic of the insides, I changed that bridge plate, after I had it glued up , it was in the wrong spot, and it's a small one.

Cheers Rob.

[graham mcdonald]

Essential tools for this work are 6" and 12" engineers rulers with metric and imperial on opposite sides of the ruler. Don't get the ones which have both on the same side, it just makes it harder to use. I am sure the StewMac string gauge is a wonderful thing, but how hard is it to hold a 6" ruler vertical to measure the action... Bunnings can be your friend.

cheers

[vandenboom]

So what does everyone else use as a relief target.
If I aimed for 0.5mm the guitar would play very poorly.

It was reassuring to read Graham's steps - I reckon that's pretty much how I do it these days, and like Kim, I don't measure relief any more, I just look to see if there is a tiny gap there, even a little less than 0.5 mm. But I put lots of time and care into getting the fingerboard surface level along each string run before fretting and then good fret levelling. I also like low action on steel string acoustics that I play - 1.7 mm to approx 2.3 mm, but I'm not a heavy handed player so it works for me.
Same with nut slots - I don't measure it - I use exactly same approach described by Graham - just look for the most minute clearance off the first fret.
Frank

[jeffhigh]

Hey Frank,I think many of us are doing it that way.
But it is really hard to communicate "a tiny gap" over the internet.
I measured one of mine the other day, which by eye looked to be due for a little less relief and when I checked it was on 0.25mm, just a little above the range I prefer.
Care to check one of your good playing guitars by holding the string directly to the frets 1 and 14 and measuring at the midpoint.
I would be interested to hear what you find.