Tree to billet: Japanese perssimon
Tree to billet: Japanese perssimon
Persimmon trees are not uncommon in Japan where I've been living for the past 14 years, although its rare to find one more than 50 years old. They are said to belong to the same genus as ebony. The most common varieties produce delicious fruit. The wood from these trees is mostly straw coloured, sometimes with small black patches.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Persimmon#Wood
Last year, I told an architect acquaintance of mine that I was interested in trying to find a tree big enough to process into billets for guitar back and sides. As it turned out, one of his kayaking mates has a persimmon farm and was planning to cut down 2 old trees, so on a pre-arranged Sunday we drove down there. I wasn't expecting much, but I thought it might be worth having a look even though it was the middle of January, and freezing bloody cold. An open water tank by the side of the track leading up to the house was frozen over. The 2 trees were on a wind swept plateau overlooking a steep valley. Not that far off, we could see the looming profile of Koya San, a mystical mountain dotted with ancient graves, stone lanterns, and moss covered paths leading through equally ancient forests.
To my great surprise, the biggest tree was 50 cm across the widest point, and the trunks of both were long enough for side sets. The venture was looking worthwhile after all.
Me on the chainsaw. Arriving home, the 2 logs protruding from the back of the car. Trying to cut billets from logs like this with a chain saw is not a viable option. Eventually I managed to locate an operational sawmill, the only one left in this area. The bloke who runs it is is 70 years old. He operates it alone these days, part time. He did an excellent job, carefully lining up the logs and accurately cutting quarter sawn billets, each time asking me how thick I wanted the billet. Check this out - the mother of all band saws.
The second photo shows the smaller of the 2 logs. That 10cm blade cut through the logs like they were butter. Width of cut is 4 mm or maybe a tad less.
The next photo shows the resulting billets. Persimmon wood behaves like Blackwood. i.e. It has to be cut into billets ideally at least 5 cm thick, and left to dry for a couple of years. 2 or 3 of them didn't go that thick, but most are 5 to 6 cm and as close to quarter as we could get. Next photo shows the offcuts.
I have a small thickness planer, so I used it to clean up the faces of some of the billets.
Most back sets will be 3 part. There's not enough width in most of these for anything better, but i'm not complaining. After this I won't complain about the cost of tone wood.
I don't know how stable this wood will end up. I've been lucky so far. I've got a few pieces from a small tree that was left lying in a paddock for a year after it was cut down. Its about the same hardness as IRW and rings like a bell when tapped.
About the tsunami / earthquake / nuc situation...
I was working downstairs in the office when my wife came in and told me what was happening. The live-to-air TV footage was unimaginably horrendous. Then the tsunami warning was extended down the entire east coast and they broadcast a message saying that it was due to hit Osaka in a little over an hour. We quickly gathered valuables, blankets, warm clothes and drinking water, piled it all in the car, and the 3 of us drove up into the mountains and waited it out listening to the radio.
My wife went to see our neighbors before we left. They said they were staying, saying they were looking after their grandmother. After seeing the TV footage I wasn't staying a minute longer than necessary. We live only a few minutes by car from the coast in a relatively low lying area. Radio reports started to come in. Shirahama, a couple of hours down the coast copped a 90cm tsunami. At Wakayama it was much lower, and the closest vulnerable place, Kansai airport, was unaffected. Luckily we are on the Eastern side of Osaka Bay, so we were pretty well sheltered from it. Not so for many other poor folk, unfortunately.
The death toll has risen to about 8,500 and more than 12,000 people are missing. People are doing whatever they can to help survivors now sheltering at about 2,500 makeshift shelters across the north of Japan. Relief supplies are reaching most areas, but access to those areas is restricted and due to lack of fuel its difficult for people to get out even if they have vehicles. A large company that I do some work for is continuing to pay staff in affected areas, even though they can't go to work, and is donating cash and large quantities of clothing. New housing and more permanent accommodation will have to be built for hundreds of thousands of evacuees.
Severely damaged nuclear reactors are being stabilised, but the wind is now blowing from the North towards us. We've been enjoying a delicious soup made from kelp which is said to be rich in potassium iodide. The body absorbs as much as it needs from the kelp, and won't absorb radioactive potassium iodide. I feel reasonably positive about the situation. It will stabilise in time, although, its heart rending to see some of the TV footage of people who have lost their relatives and everything they had.
Thanks for reading.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Persimmon#Wood
Last year, I told an architect acquaintance of mine that I was interested in trying to find a tree big enough to process into billets for guitar back and sides. As it turned out, one of his kayaking mates has a persimmon farm and was planning to cut down 2 old trees, so on a pre-arranged Sunday we drove down there. I wasn't expecting much, but I thought it might be worth having a look even though it was the middle of January, and freezing bloody cold. An open water tank by the side of the track leading up to the house was frozen over. The 2 trees were on a wind swept plateau overlooking a steep valley. Not that far off, we could see the looming profile of Koya San, a mystical mountain dotted with ancient graves, stone lanterns, and moss covered paths leading through equally ancient forests.
To my great surprise, the biggest tree was 50 cm across the widest point, and the trunks of both were long enough for side sets. The venture was looking worthwhile after all.
Me on the chainsaw. Arriving home, the 2 logs protruding from the back of the car. Trying to cut billets from logs like this with a chain saw is not a viable option. Eventually I managed to locate an operational sawmill, the only one left in this area. The bloke who runs it is is 70 years old. He operates it alone these days, part time. He did an excellent job, carefully lining up the logs and accurately cutting quarter sawn billets, each time asking me how thick I wanted the billet. Check this out - the mother of all band saws.
The second photo shows the smaller of the 2 logs. That 10cm blade cut through the logs like they were butter. Width of cut is 4 mm or maybe a tad less.
The next photo shows the resulting billets. Persimmon wood behaves like Blackwood. i.e. It has to be cut into billets ideally at least 5 cm thick, and left to dry for a couple of years. 2 or 3 of them didn't go that thick, but most are 5 to 6 cm and as close to quarter as we could get. Next photo shows the offcuts.
I have a small thickness planer, so I used it to clean up the faces of some of the billets.
Most back sets will be 3 part. There's not enough width in most of these for anything better, but i'm not complaining. After this I won't complain about the cost of tone wood.
I don't know how stable this wood will end up. I've been lucky so far. I've got a few pieces from a small tree that was left lying in a paddock for a year after it was cut down. Its about the same hardness as IRW and rings like a bell when tapped.
About the tsunami / earthquake / nuc situation...
I was working downstairs in the office when my wife came in and told me what was happening. The live-to-air TV footage was unimaginably horrendous. Then the tsunami warning was extended down the entire east coast and they broadcast a message saying that it was due to hit Osaka in a little over an hour. We quickly gathered valuables, blankets, warm clothes and drinking water, piled it all in the car, and the 3 of us drove up into the mountains and waited it out listening to the radio.
My wife went to see our neighbors before we left. They said they were staying, saying they were looking after their grandmother. After seeing the TV footage I wasn't staying a minute longer than necessary. We live only a few minutes by car from the coast in a relatively low lying area. Radio reports started to come in. Shirahama, a couple of hours down the coast copped a 90cm tsunami. At Wakayama it was much lower, and the closest vulnerable place, Kansai airport, was unaffected. Luckily we are on the Eastern side of Osaka Bay, so we were pretty well sheltered from it. Not so for many other poor folk, unfortunately.
The death toll has risen to about 8,500 and more than 12,000 people are missing. People are doing whatever they can to help survivors now sheltering at about 2,500 makeshift shelters across the north of Japan. Relief supplies are reaching most areas, but access to those areas is restricted and due to lack of fuel its difficult for people to get out even if they have vehicles. A large company that I do some work for is continuing to pay staff in affected areas, even though they can't go to work, and is donating cash and large quantities of clothing. New housing and more permanent accommodation will have to be built for hundreds of thousands of evacuees.
Severely damaged nuclear reactors are being stabilised, but the wind is now blowing from the North towards us. We've been enjoying a delicious soup made from kelp which is said to be rich in potassium iodide. The body absorbs as much as it needs from the kelp, and won't absorb radioactive potassium iodide. I feel reasonably positive about the situation. It will stabilise in time, although, its heart rending to see some of the TV footage of people who have lost their relatives and everything they had.
Thanks for reading.
- woodrat
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Re: Tree to billet: Japanese perssimon
Thanks Alfred for a wonderful post. It is my understanding that Persimmon is indeed a true ebony. It used to be the wood of choice for wooden golf club heads before "woods" became "metals".
I have harvested whole trees before and I know the work involved but when the wood is good it is worth the effort to save it...well done!
John

I have harvested whole trees before and I know the work involved but when the wood is good it is worth the effort to save it...well done!
John
"It's never too late to be what you might have been " - George Eliot
Re: Tree to billet: Japanese perssimon
I can hardly believe you got those pieces in the back of the car.
Japan has a mad ukulele following. You might want to try your hand at building some with the smaller pieces you've got there.
Japan has a mad ukulele following. You might want to try your hand at building some with the smaller pieces you've got there.
- J.F. Custom
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Re: Tree to billet: Japanese perssimon
Hi Alfred.
That picture of the logs in the car is great!
Now there is dedication for you.
Any bandsaw that has TWO steering wheels gets my tick of approval too
Kudos to your salvage efforts.
In any case, I had forgotten we had any members based in Japan.
Very glad to hear you were minimally affected considering the extent of devastation. I can't fathom the amount of rebuilding and resettling that needs to be done, but I sincerely hope the future is a little brighter there.
Jeremy.
That picture of the logs in the car is great!

Any bandsaw that has TWO steering wheels gets my tick of approval too

In any case, I had forgotten we had any members based in Japan.

Very glad to hear you were minimally affected considering the extent of devastation. I can't fathom the amount of rebuilding and resettling that needs to be done, but I sincerely hope the future is a little brighter there.
Jeremy.
Re: Tree to billet: Japanese perssimon
Great post, the instruments that will be built will have a story to tell. Make sure you make a note somewhere in them when the Timber was harvested it will be a time the will be of significance to all Japanese people I am sure.
Cheers Luke
Re: Tree to billet: Japanese perssimon
I love these types of threads. Lets me dream that I could find a suitable tree and do just the same.
- DarwinStrings
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Re: Tree to billet: Japanese perssimon
Nice score with the Ebony Alfred and while you are combining wood and natural disasters I thought I would jump in here rather than start a new thread. The recent small cyclone to pass through Darwin brought many off our park trees down and I have managed to grab a few. All African mahogany and the first three arrived on my doorstep today, well driveway anyway as we couldn't get in the house if they dumped them on the doorstep. I have four more from the parks to come (still waiting on dry access) and one large one I have not seen yet in a suburban backyard ( the owner says it is 4m to the first branch and 1m dia but I won't count my chickens till they get flattened by the falling trunk).
Pic one is all three, the one on the right is 2.9m long left is 1.2m long and centre is 1m long (was 1.2 but one of the guys on the limb chipping contract decided they needed a coffee table
oh well plenty to go around I suppose)
Pic two is the middle one with a metre rule leaning against it. The bit with the missing paint in the middle is the pith (that is paint left over from our bathroom not a designer log colour choice)
Jim
I will be amongst the wood for a while
Pic one is all three, the one on the right is 2.9m long left is 1.2m long and centre is 1m long (was 1.2 but one of the guys on the limb chipping contract decided they needed a coffee table

Pic two is the middle one with a metre rule leaning against it. The bit with the missing paint in the middle is the pith (that is paint left over from our bathroom not a designer log colour choice)
Jim
I will be amongst the wood for a while
Life is good when you are amongst the wood.
Jim Schofield
Jim Schofield
Re: Tree to billet: Japanese perssimon
Those cyclonic clouds had a silver lining and you scored. Well done!
Any chance of posting a photo or 2 of the milling process?

Any chance of posting a photo or 2 of the milling process?
Re: Tree to billet: Japanese perssimon
It wasn't easy.Allen wrote:I can hardly believe you got those pieces in the back of the car.
I didn't know that, and frankly, I don't know much about ukes. Music shops here are full of guitars, pianos and such, but only the occasional uke. I only average one guitar a year. That's all I've got time for. Yesterday I had a full day off - my only full day off this month. I'll try to make up for that the first week of May. I'm taking the whole week off (Golden week holiday).Allen wrote: Japan has a mad ukulele following. You might want to try your hand at building some with the smaller pieces you've got there.
Re: Tree to billet: Japanese perssimon
Thanks for your kind words.J.F. Custom wrote: Very glad to hear you were minimally affected considering the extent of devastation. I can't fathom the amount of rebuilding and resettling that needs to be done, but I sincerely hope the future is a little brighter there.
Jeremy.
With a bit of luck, the work and money injected into the economy will be enough to lift the country out of deflation and economic malaise.
- DarwinStrings
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Re: Tree to billet: Japanese perssimon
I will post some more pics Alfred when I get to the milling although they will not be as interesting as yours cause it will just be me butchering them down with a Stihl 066, slicing them up with my 17" carbatech bandsaw, then sticking them up with those disposable bass wood chopsticks.
Jim
Jim
Life is good when you are amongst the wood.
Jim Schofield
Jim Schofield
Re: Tree to billet: Japanese perssimon
Great thread Alfred.
It ticked a lot of boxes for me and brought back some memories:
The taste of dried perssimons
Kayaking
Bandsaws
and guitar sets
.
cheers
steve
It ticked a lot of boxes for me and brought back some memories:
The taste of dried perssimons
Kayaking
Bandsaws
and guitar sets

cheers
steve
Re: Tree to billet: Japanese perssimon
Thanks Steve. Dorrigo?! We have a place at Repton not far from the coast and the river but well elevated. We are planning to move back at some point in the not too distant future.
Re: Tree to billet: Japanese perssimon
Have funDarwinStrings wrote:... it will just be me butchering them down with a Stihl 066, slicing them up with my 17" carbatech bandsaw, then sticking them up with those disposable bass wood chopsticks.
Jim

- DarwinStrings
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Re: Tree to billet: Japanese perssimon
Fingers crossed that I don't find any old nails, they did come from parks so less risk than the suburban back yard tree with its old party lights hanging hooks
Jim

Jim
Life is good when you are amongst the wood.
Jim Schofield
Jim Schofield
Re: Tree to billet: Japanese perssimon
I know Repton well. Look me up when you get back and we can swap stories and maybe share come Ocha around the kotatsu.
regards
Steve

regards
Steve
Re: Tree to billet: Japanese perssimon
Good! I'll look forward to that. Its just about impossible to buy decent green tea in Australia. The muck sold in supermarkets is undrinkable. I'll bring some Uji cha or good quality Ureshii cha over with me. Just fantasising, but maybe in a few years time we can organise a local guitar show. How about Bellingen for a location? The Bellingen guitar show - now that's got a ring to it.
Re: Tree to billet: Japanese perssimon
Bellingen has the jazz festival and Dorrigo has a folk and blue grass festival so a guitar show would fit in well with either of those. And then there is Bellingen's camp creative which sometimes includes music and dance classes but could do with a uke building course or similar.
There is no shortage of enthusiasm around here.
cheers
steve
There is no shortage of enthusiasm around here.
cheers
steve
Re: Tree to billet: Japanese perssimon
Hey Jim, I spent about 13 years in Darwin and only left for Sydney about 2 years ago. Are African Mahogany those trees that are all over Palmerston that grow quickly, have invasive roots, with smallish leaves and look a little like weeping willows?
Dan.
Dan.
- DarwinStrings
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Re: Tree to billet: Japanese perssimon
Nope Dan, I reckon you are talking about the weeping rosewood (Pterocarpus indicus) or PNG rosewood , ten or twenty years and they will look like guitars.
Jim
Jim
Life is good when you are amongst the wood.
Jim Schofield
Jim Schofield
Re: Tree to billet: Japanese perssimon
Yeah, that's them, PNG rosewood. Good trees to grow fast and crack slabs (speaking from experience). Thanks mate.
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