gluing ivoroid bindings

[bunker]

Greetings one and all from Geraldton WA. I am doing a repair job on a classical La Patrie guitar that had major trauma but a lot of sentimental value to the owner and I am at the stage of fitting the Ivoroid binding to the new top so as to match the back. I have only fitted wood bindings so far and before I go ahead and fit these with thin CA glue I thought I would check to see if this is a no no for any reason. I have done some tests and it appears to be fine however any better ideas from someone more experienced with the product would be appreciated. I will be shellacking the channels prior to fitting to stop the bleeding/staining.

Archie

[Dominic]

Archie, you can just use acetone for glue. Its melts the plastic a bit and really sticks to the channel. I've done several plastic bound electrics like this and it works fine. CA can always wick under the finish and into the end grain of the top and colour it. Even if it is sealed.
Cheers
Dom

[Allen]

How do you go about using the acetone Dom? Just wet the channel and the mating edge of the binding?

[graham mcdonald]

Most people using celluloid binding us Weld-On #16, which you can get from acrylic/perspex suppliers. It is effectively just acetone in goop. Good old Tarzan's Grip is an alternative, but it seems to stay a bit soft, while the Weld-On sets up harder. I am very impressed that Dominic can get enough acetone on the binding to soften it before it all evaporates. Whenever I have tried that it just ends up all grubby with dirty fingerprints etched into the celluloid.

cheers

graham

[Dominic]

Hey, I just apply a couple of coats with a brush until a thin layer of the binding melts then push it into the channel. I don't wet the wood as I was worried that it would impact the wood. I have also made my own glue by melting bits of binding in acetone. Great for gaps and joining ends.
No more fiddly than using glue.
I also did this on my archtop, both F holes and body with no problems.
Cheers
Dom

[bunker]

Thankyou Dominic and Graham for your replies. My apologies for the tardiness of my reply but I got called in as an emergency for my mate's Corporate Lawn bowls team and after a grueling battle in the heat we needed a few hours to cool down and rehydrate afterwards.
Thanks Dominic, I have seen the tute on Frank Fords site re the acetone and fiddled with it a bit but my concern is "melting"the binding too much and distorting it, maybe I applied too much to the test piece i did?
Graham, I have seen the WeldOn glue mentioned previously and I will see if I can source some at the local Hobby store as the BIg B doesn't carry it. Thanks for the Tarzans Grip tip, I have some of that and will give it a test.
Thanks again for the replies.
Archie.

[Kim]

More on Dom's acetone tip, you could try shaving the binding material with a plane and then soaking the shavings in acetone until they dissolves into a "goop" as Graham so elegantly put it...this would give you home made plastic binding glue with a perfect colour match.

Cheers

Kim

[Allen]

This work with all pvc type binding material?

[Dominic]

If get the right amount of acetone on you push it into the channel and you will see a bit of squeeze out which shows you have adhesion. I do short bits at a time, maybe 200mm and carefully keep wetting just the inside while trying to keep the outside as dry as possible. If done right the outside will be stiff. With the binding on its side going into the channel and brushing one side any excess should drip off the edge and the outside should stay dry. You end up with the inside and the bottom edge nice and sticky. I keep the section wet by repeated brushing and after a little while the surface will stay wet and goopy for about 1 minute. The tape it into position. Move to next section.
I could never find weld-on glue so I had to do it like this.
Cheers
Dom

[graham mcdonald]

With Weld-on16 you have around a minute to get everything taped down, so I do it in 6-8" lengths, leaving around and inch with the goop in it open and then shwish in some more for the next section and keep taping. I reckon the vital thing is to get a good bond between the binding and the wood, but it can be easy to use too much, as it will keep on dissolving the binding for an hour or two, even though it seems to have skinned over and stopped. I have some .020" black ABS purfling that I use as the inside layer and that has sometimes seemed have just about dissolved away before it hardens up again, so a thin layer of the glue is important. Just enough to soften a poofteenth (technical engineering term) of the outer layer, but not any deeper.

Celluloid is delightful stuff,with a fascinating history, even if you have to smuggle it in these days.

Dom, Weld-on16 is usually available for around $20 a tube from a perspex/acrylic place in Isa St, Fyshwick to the left as you come down from Newcastle St and up a driveway. There is sign with something about acrylic on it. Wonderful stuff and a great hit off the fumes as well

cheers

graham

[Mike Thomas]

Is Weld-on 16 very much different from balsa cement, still available from hobby shops for around $4 for a largish tube? Balsa cement used to be celluloid dissolved in acetone, and perhaps still is, although it is usually described as an acetate.

[graham mcdonald]

Essentially the same stuff. It is all acetone with a thickener of some kind. Duco is the popular American brand of hobby glue, which I suspect is much the same as Tarzan's Grip

[Lillian]

Duco is what I use for plastic to wood.

Be careful if you do a pile of binding shavings. They will go up VERY quickly if you get an open flame near them. There is a video of someone showing just how quickly. He lost his eyebrows and some arm hair because he couldn't move fast enough after tossing the match at the pile.