Laminated purflings

[mooshalah]

Hi Folks.

Here's something that's been occupying my (probably too idle) mind over the last week or two; 1.0 mm black / white / black (b/w/b) or w/b/w laminated purfling.

Y'know the stuff. Sold by Stewmac for $2.35 per strip, made of black "fiber" and white maple. The stuff we probably all use from time to time (often with feelings of guilt because it's so passe or unoriginal) in diverse places such as purfling, around rosettes, along back-strips or in other places to create what artists call "edge tension" at the interface of dark and light areas of colour. The price from Stewmac is not that great as to cause apoplexy, yet I find it irritating that I'm always hanging out for my next delivery of stuff from Stewmac, and that I've just gone and spent maybe $30 on something that I ought to be able to make myself!

It's easy enough to make one's own 1.5 - 2.0 mm laminate, because the sheets of wooden veneers easily available to us here in Australia (from places like Peter Scott-Young) are around 0.6 mm thick, but it's really quite difficult (I have found) to find wooden veneers of around 0.3 mm thick. (Although LMI sells some veneers at this thickness, it's still relatively expensive, I feel). There are times when a 1.8 mm purfling strip looks just a bit too unrefined and chunky - and that's where the 1.0 mm stuff hits the spot.

Thus my mind has turned to possible methods of making a bucketload of my own my own cheap 1.0 mm laminated purfling strips, and the Stewmac word "fiber" set me thinking. This word tells us nothing, and yet gives a hint at possible solutions.

The way I see it, I need something that can be laminated, and be compatable with glue (say, Titebond); that will not go all soggy and limp when glued into slots routed into soundboards; will retain its firmness (but still bend nicely) when shaped to go into the binding channel routed around the edge of the guitar; will not look terribly artificial; and that the white material in the "sandwich" won't immediately soak up any stain that one might apply, so as to immediately turn black.

There are probably a few other criteria that I haven't thought of!

I bought a few A3 sheets of black, coloured and white 120 gsm (grams per square meter - around 0.3 mm thick) papers from an artist's supply shop (I reckoned that one ought to be able to construct some tasteful, not too artificial-looking laminated purfling strips from the browns and creams that were also on offer) and started experimenting.

I soaked the sheets in an alcoholic shellac solution (french polish), thinking to try and waterproof the papers prior to laminating them. (I've also considered using other materials, but haven't got around to it.) I then made a black - white / black paper sandwich using slightly water-thinned Titebond glue, and sandwich this between sheets of waxed paper, and clamped between sheets of MDF. After drying, I sliced the b/w/b sandwich into strips of around 2.5 mm wide. (I have this fantasy of making the sandwich 800 mm x 100 mm, then passing it through my Fellowes home paper shredder and within seconds converting it into 40 perfectly formed purfling strips!)

It didn't quite work. The strips look great - 1.0 mm thick, and very clear, crisp b/w/b - but they're still not fully waterproof or as firm as the stuff one can buy from Stewmac and most importantly I feel, they have no real structural integrity. They simply tear like .. uum .. paper! They don't have the satisfying stiffness of the Stewmac material, and they certainly won't give one that extremely satisfying feeling of taking them down level with a block-plane! Maybe I can try and add some adhesivey material to a much thicker cut of shellac solution. (I feel I ought to be up to the challenge of sourcing a suitable material. I am an industrial chemist by profession.)

I've managed to cadge some free samples of waterproof papers (800 mm x 600 mm) from a paper manufacturer (the sort used to make rainproof maps, or notebooks for firefighters), and these arrived today. The papers don't tear, and it's claimed that Titebond will be compatable with their chemical nature (no longer wood- or rag fiber, but polypropylene fiber). I'll try this stuff out tomorrow.

But to my ultimate reasons for this post:

1/. In doing this, I don't want to be seen to be simply reinventing the wheel. Rather, I'm hoping to build a cheaper - if not better - mousetrap. If Stewmac can do this, Surely I can! Have others tried this sort of thing, and if so, with what sort of success?

2/. I joined this forum to share things both sacred and profane to luthiers (my first post was to ask for help in designing a ukulele), and I'm feeling a bit guilty about not yet having posted any pictures about my progress in this matter, to counterbalance the kind responses from strangers who replied to my reques for information.

So; anyone have any comments?

Frank.

[kiwigeo]

Um if you soak the paper in shellac and then try to glue it I think you might have problems.

[matthew]

I tried using picture-framers matt card as a white insert between two sheets of black veneer.

Worked OK up to the point when I had to bend and let it into the channel, then the paper came unglued from the veneers and lost its stiffness, got soft and wouldn't go into the channel, then after that it was hard to plane back cleanly, and the card soaked up every bit of black dust that came into contact. So I had black-grey-black result. yuk.

i suppose you could try layering the black "fish paper" that some people use here for the black layers. For white ... i think fish paper comes in white as well!

http://www.professionalplastics.com/FISHPAPER

[Puff]

The down and dirty and dead cheap answer to the white is that white plastic stuff around the edge of your roof - we call it PVC guttering or Marley Stormcloud. Dead easy to cut, thickness, sand, scrape, glue.... You get a lot out of a couple of metres

[Allen]

If you want to get purflings in any size, color or shape that you can dream of then you can always go to Gurian and get them to make up what you want. It's were people like StewMac, LMI and many of us get theirs.

[liam_fnq]

The down and dirty and dead cheap answer to the white is that white plastic stuff around the edge of your roof - we call it PVC guttering or Marley Stormcloud. Dead easy to cut, thickness, sand, scrape, glue.... You get a lot out of a couple of metres

I work with PVC pipe daily. A lot of cutting and joining. I've met more than a couple of old blokes who have had nodules in their lungs, caused by PVC, show up on chest Xrays. The first thing the doctor usually thinks is that it's asbestos. PVC is apparently pretty harmless but I'd rather not have any permanent passengers in my lungs so no sanding PVC for me.

[Puff]

Apologies -Took "making a bucketload of my own my own cheap 1.0 mm laminated purfling strips" as the drift of the thread rather than "where can I spend more money..."
Thanks for that Liam - was unaware and will research. Scraping and slicing should be ok though?
OK -don't smoke it, use it in the woodstove, eat it or use it for snuff

[liam_fnq]

here's an MSDS for PVC
http://www.vinidex.com.au/files//techni ... -_msds.pdf

It says you can eat the stuff..........

I both scrape and slice the stuff at work but when someone gets out the diamond blade grinder I wander off.

[J.F. Custom]

LMI has this to say -

"...Fiber is a wood product that has the consistency of hard paper..."

I guess most paper could be considered a wood product per se, but I don't think the fiber in purflings is a paper that has been "post" treated. That may be barking up the wrong tree in my (uninformed ) opinion. Possibly it is made in the same fashion as paper but with particular resin/adhesives, particle size/grade etc. Probably for another use altogether that happens to also suit this application.

Perhaps some home pulp paper making may be required...

Good luck.

Jeremy.

[Kim]

I have the feeling that all of the commercially available "fibre" purfling products are made from fiche paper as per the stuff Matthew linked to. Among other things it is used in electrical appliances to shield windings from heat damage etc. From what I understanded the product is made by the same process as paper, but the cellulose firbre is 'sintered' ...e.g. it is mainly carbon with little left to burn, and little left to up take moisture from the atmosphere or glue even.....it is process well past normal thick paper but will still swells a little with glue and finish regardless of what some suppliers may suggest.

You can buy black dyed maple or pear wood veneer cheap, and in many thicknesses. You can make 'the' best white veneer from cheese wood, a flat mdf feeder board, and a thickness sander, and you can glue the lot with titebond 3 so it will stay together even when heated..there's your black and white purfling in whatever size you need if you really 'must' make it yourself. But for what it is worth, if I was set on a certain combination of B/W/B or what ever, I would just get a full lay up made from Gurian and be done with it. Good product, good price, and saves a lot of buggerizing about when there is better things to do.

Cheers

Kim