Which top woods (conifers) are NOT translucent?

[charangohabsburg]

When we stick a light bulb in a guitar with spruce top (Picea abies) we can see it's strutting pattern, the top is translucent.
Doing the same thing with a top made of western red cedar (Thuja plicata) we can't see the struts through the top because it's too opaque.

My big question is: which other woods (conifers) which at a fist glance appear to be spruce (Picea abies) are as opaque as western red cedar?

I am asking because two Spanish friends had/have guitars in their shops with opaque tops, but the color of the wood does not seem to be the one of red cedar. In addition, red cedar appears in Spain (and/or Europe) at the first time (at least as it is documented) in the early sixties (via José Ramírez III). The two guitars in question are from 1931 (Domingo Esteso) and 1954 (Marcelo Barbero).

I have no idea how for example Sikta spruce, Adirondack, Red Spruce, Yellow Cedar, Larch and other spruce-like woods look like with a light bulb behind. I also would appreciate your input juts to know a certain wood is translucent in order to be able to exclude it from the list.

Here's a vid from the inside-inspection of the Marcelo Barbero 1954, at the end you can see the top's color from outside:


youtu.be/


And here are some pics of the Domingo Esteso:

Domingo Esteso 1931, non-translucent non-red cedar top

Domingo Esteso 1931, non-translucent non-red cedar top

[Allen]

Sitka is definitely translucent, so rule that one out.

How about Sequoia? Looks very much like Western Red Cedar.

[Bob Connor]

Have a look here Markus.

http://theunofficialmartinguitarforum.y ... NG-LIBRARY


It's all Martin bracing but there's a lot of shots with light bulbs in guitars.
You'll probably find that they are mostly Sitka and Adirondack (Red) spruce.

Regards

[charangohabsburg]

Thank you, Allen and Bob!

How about Sequoia? Looks very much like Western Red Cedar.

Does this mean you suggest I should test if Sequoia is opaque like cedar or did you observe it is?

Have a look here Markus.
http://theunofficialmartinguitarforum.y ... NG-LIBRARY
It's all Martin bracing but there's a lot of shots with light bulbs in guitars.
You'll probably find that they are mostly Sitka and Adirondack (Red) spruce.

Ha! I didn't even know Adirondack was the same as red spruce! (I have only Swiss spruce here around - kind of annoying! )
Someone wrote there on theunofficialmartinforum (whatastrangewordcanttheybeofficial?!) red spruce was not that translucent as "the other tops", especially when they were new. So this is also out of the list. The tops in question are definitely not new and "my Spaniards" say their tops would show just nothing with a light bulb in the guitar - just if it they had plywood tops! But it's not plywood - probably real genuine Master Guitars.

[Allen]

No, sequoia is not translucent. Don't know how common it would have been back then though. I would have thought that WRC would show up on your shores before sequoia. I only mentioned it because they can look similar.

[charangohabsburg]

Thank you again, Allen.

In Europe, Sequoia surely was not a common (or even known) wood at any time, but probably it was sold as German spruce! Oh well, it's nor really a joke, it's a fairly probable option.

But maybe there are also some not so well known and renowned non-translucent pines right from Spain which no one would use anymore today. Spruce, WRC and virtually every other type of wood have gotten pretty available to anyone on the globe today (this was pretty different in European pre- during- and post WW2 crisis). And yet, wood was making it's way to anywhere at anytime.

I'll have to ask around now for pines, firs and so on. I'll tell you more when I know.
If someone else knows something, please let me know.

P.S.

I would have thought that WRC would show up on your shores before sequoia

I think so too. But I also remember that the Western Red Cedar used by José Ramírez in the early sixties, he bought, or let buy as "cedar" in the belief he would buy "cedro de honduras" = "spanish cedar" = Cedrela odorata (!!!). Fortunately, Ramírez got aware of the great qualities of that "new cedar". I guess that any, or at leas many "exotic" woods made it to anywhere on the globe without having documented it's first journey. Anyway, the top wood of those two guitars (Domingo Esteso and Marcelo Barbero) don't look like WRC.

[duh Padma]

I also would appreciate your input juts to know a certain wood is translucent in order to be able to exclude it from the list.

Now why would you wanna exclude using translucent woods?

By the way...ALL spruce is the same in a lab. With the exception of sitka. In other words...it is impossible to tell one type of spruce from another once the bark is off no matter were it came from. Ya, there is the "educated guess" based on characteristics, but it is no were near being fool proof. Translation...find yourself an honest wood supplier for your tops, cuz once its cut...its a crap shoot at best.

Now if you are into some really "stiff like viagra" tone wood well then I do have a limited supply of Mongolian spruce from the Gobie dessert. It is 800 years old and is recut from the support beams of Genghis Khans yurt. Limited supply.

blessings
duh Padma

Ps: Dealers in queries welcome.


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[charangohabsburg]

I also would appreciate your input just to know a certain wood is translucent in order to be able to exclude it from the list.

Now why would you wanna exclude using translucent woods?

Hi Padma!

The list I want to exclude those translucent woods from is not the list of woods I want to build with. It's the list of woods the top of this Domingo Esteso 1931 guitar probably was made of.

Nearly all top woods we are using (except Western Red Cedar) are translucent, but the top of this Domingo Esteso isn't, and it's not Western Red Cedar either.

Now if you are into some really "stiff like viagra" tone wood well then I do have a limited supply of Mongolian spruce from the Gobie dessert [...]

I have plenty of spruce of any stiffness right around the corner. ...some of it something around 2000 years old (not a joke) but not really the thing to make an instrument with.

Anyway, thanks for the generous offer.

Cheers,