Lute Progress -

[kiwigeo]

Today I got started on some practice runs for the cutting of the lute rosette. The rosette is cut directly into the top so there's no margin for error. I aim to use a variety of cutting tools on the practice rosettes and work out which one suits me the best. In the pics below Im using a No 10A scalpel blade. The rosette drawing is glued to the top of the top and a circle of paper is glued underneath to reinforce the area around the rosette.

[Kim]

Looking good Martin,

This would be one of those jobs that would be best done in the early hours of the morning I would imagine....when its nice and quite. The scalpel looks to be a good idea. A small drill, jewelers saw with some fine blades, and a few small files would be great for the clean up.

Keep at it mate your going well.

Cheers

Kim

[Dave White]

Martin,

That's looking really good. You've got more patience than me - I just did a small part of the practice one and then went straight at the top It's one of those tasks that you know when to stop and put it to one side but at other times you can get into "the zone" that repetitive tasks often take you into. Very frustrating at times but immensely satisfying when you complete it and see the result.

[Nick]

Bugger that! Can't you buy a premaid one?
Looking really promising there Martin. Are you changing the scalpel blade regularly or have you done all that with the same blade? Of course once you've carefully gone through & cut all of that, as Kim pointed out, you've then got to go through & clean up the cuts/edges without breaking anything....just to cheer you up
I imagine that if it did split you could wick in some CA, is that a viable/recognised repair or is the top basically a throw away? Fairly good looking bit of practice wood you have there too or is that a bit of arsewipe spruce? (Can you tell by all these questions that I'm fascinated by this? )

[Kim]

CA will stain spruce a piss yellow....vitamin "B" piss yellow at that Nick.

Better to not break it but would imagine that a bottle of HHG would be nice to have sitting ready in the warmer.

[matthew]

Lovely work Martin. And good on you for having the patience for a practice run!

I have an article somewhere by Lyn Elder about cutting rosettes where they mention doing the first stabbing cuts from the underside into a cork backing piece, and leaving the paper glued to the rosette as well to support the thing a little more. then you turn the thing over and clean up the cuts and do the 'weaving".

Also mention wetting the spruce a little to help the cutting.

I'll scan it for you tonight.

MT

[kiwigeo]

Looking good Martin,

This would be one of those jobs that would be best done in the early hours of the morning I would imagine....when its nice and quite. The scalpel looks to be a good idea. A small drill, jewelers saw with some fine blades, and a few small files would be great for the clean up.

Keep at it mate your going well.

Cheers

Kim

Im following a van Andrews tutorial with this instrument as well as using Lundbergs master work on lute building. Both of them stipulate that filing and sanding is a no no and that cleaning up should be done with the scalpel.

[kiwigeo]

Looking really promising there Martin. Are you changing the scalpel blade regularly or have you done all that with the same blade? Of course once you've carefully gone through & cut all of that, as Kim pointed out, you've then got to go through & clean up the cuts/edges without breaking anything....just to cheer you up
I imagine that if it did split you could wick in some CA, is that a viable/recognised repair or is the top basically a throw away? Fairly good looking bit of practice wood you have there too or is that a bit of arsewipe spruce? (Can you tell by all these questions that I'm fascinated by this? )

Nick,

The scalpel blade lasts for one quarter on the rosette and then I change it out. The spruce is some of Graham Heins Engleman. As Kim correctly points out CA glue will stain the spruce. Splits can usually be fixed up with hide glue.

The key yo avoiding splits is to have the rosette reinforced on the underside with the paper and also to work on a cutting mat. Order of cuts relative to grain direction must also be addressed. Most importantly one must fight the urge to push out the cut outs until all the cuts are done.

[kiwigeo]

Lovely work Martin. And good on you for having the patience for a practice run!

I have an article somewhere by Lyn Elder about cutting rosettes where they mention doing the first stabbing cuts from the underside into a cork backing piece, and leaving the paper glued to the rosette as well to support the thing a little more. then you turn the thing over and clean up the cuts and do the 'weaving".

Also mention wetting the spruce a little to help the cutting.

I'll scan it for you tonight.

MT

Matthew,

Lundberg does his cuts from the underside similar to Elder. Lundberg also stiffens up the spruce with shellac or varnish after the cuts have been made and before clean up.

[matthew]

here you go.

[J.F. Custom]

Oooohhhh... Now that looks like fun Great work Martin.

Tell me though, after you complete the practice run, if it goes well, are you able to draw a lute soundboard around the pattern and use it? Or perhaps some other instrument outline? Does look to be a nice top...

Jeremy.

[kiwigeo]

Hi Jeremy,

I guess I could use the practise run rosettes for something (a uke?). It is nice spruce. For the actual instrument I'm using some Swiss Spruce supplied by Tim Spittle....that stuff is even nicer.

[kiwigeo]

here you go.

Thanks alot Matthew!

LOL I notice the pdf has been downloaded by two users already...ok WHO are they!!!!

[DarwinStrings]

Looking forward to the finished job Martin, I would have thought it was a really slow job but the fact that you need those safety goggles leaves me thinking you are so fast at it you need to avoid damage from the flying wood chips.

Jim

[kiwigeo]

Looking forward to the finished job Martin, I would have thought it was a really slow job but the fact that you need those safety goggles leaves me thinking you are so fast at it you need to avoid damage from the flying wood chips.

Jim

Youre admiring my Stewmac magnifying headset....its great but sometimes I forget Im wearing the thing. yesterday I popped next to the neighbour and couldnt understand why she was looking at me a bit strange. Realised I had my magnifiers still propped on to of my head.

[Stephen Kinnaird]

Good on ya, Martin... looks nice.
You know, you could always use the "test" rosette for an avatar....

Steve

[Kim]

Looking good Martin,

This would be one of those jobs that would be best done in the early hours of the morning I would imagine....when its nice and quite. The scalpel looks to be a good idea. A small drill, jewelers saw with some fine blades, and a few small files would be great for the clean up.

Keep at it mate your going well.

Cheers

Kim

Im following a van Andrews tutorial with this instrument as well as using Lundbergs master work on lute building. Both of them stipulate that filing and sanding is a no no and that cleaning up should be done with the scalpel.

Yes files can be a blessing or a curse. Loose concentration for only a stroke or two and one can easily loose perpendicular. But for clearing out and blending sharp corners and such they remain a useful tool that I would leave in the quiver.

Cheers

Kim

[DarwinStrings]

I reckon I will have to get a set sooner or later Martin, at the moment I just wear two pairs of reading glasses one on top of the other which always gets a funny look when people drop in.

Jim

[kiwigeo]

Agreed Kim. I'll use a file on one of the test rosettes.

[matthew]

I could not do what I do without my magnifying headset, even on a great big bass! Mine's about 30 years old and uncomfortable. Might have to get a new one.

Martin I suspect the most practical use of a practice rosette is going to be a christmas present for someone!

[John Steele]

Looking good there.
Hey Martin are you using the scalpel to cut all the way through the wood or using a jewlers saw to cut the areas out and following up with the scalpel for clean up?
Looks like a good job for some nice tunes and and maybe a glass of something to ease the nerves.....
John

[Mike Thomas]

Martin, it's looking very impressive. Is the top going to be French polished? And do you put a thin coat of shellac on the cut surfaces, or leave them with no finish?

It's possible that the 1.5mm and 3mm detail chisels made by Veritas and sold through Lee Valley, would be good for final cleanup. I imagine that it would be nice to preserve the look of a cut surface, usually much crisper, cleaner, and reflective than a filed surface, as long as the blade's really sharp.

[Dennis Leahy]

Looks awesome, Martin! I guess the wife is going to get either a pendant or a Christmas tree ornament with this trial run?

Dennis

[kiwigeo]

Looking good there.
Hey Martin are you using the scalpel to cut all the way through the wood or using a jewlers saw to cut the areas out and following up with the scalpel for clean up?
Looks like a good job for some nice tunes and and maybe a glass of something to ease the nerves.....
John

Hi John,

I'm using a scalpel to cut all the way through....I've got a variety of blades here so am finding which one is the best for the job.

A glass of wine is probably not the best thing to have at end during a rosette cutting job.....I actually got into major trouble with a scalpel during a binding job last year and the root cause was alcohol in the workshop. the workshop is now a booze free zone.

[kiwigeo]

Martin, it's looking very impressive. Is the top going to be French polished? And do you put a thin coat of shellac on the cut surfaces, or leave them with no finish?

It's possible that the 1.5mm and 3mm detail chisels made by Veritas and sold through Lee Valley, would be good for final cleanup. I imagine that it would be nice to preserve the look of a cut surface, usually much crisper, cleaner, and reflective than a filed surface, as long as the blade's really sharp.

Hi Mike,

Ive got a bunch of mini chisels which I tried out on an earlier test run. They work ok but Im finding with the scalpel Im getting less splits occuring along the grain. It has to do with less downward pressure being exerted using the scalpel.