Re: Kerf Linings

[btjjdb]

You are viewing a re-constructed thread by the ANZLF recovery team. For more information click here.

"Originally Posted on:Mon Aug 16, 2010"


Hi All,

I'm looking at making up some kerf linings. How wide are they between each cut?

I did an experiment at work with the bandsaw and cut some practice kerf linings at 10 x 5mm. If used like traditional linings they bend and follow a curve easily, but I notice a lot of you guys here use the reverse kerf lining, which I like the look of, but when I gently bend the ones I made back the other way eg for the waist they snap.

How do you guys bend the reverse linings for the upper and lower bout without snapping?

regards

Brenden

[Kim]

I wet mine and clap the 'uncut' side to the 'outside' edge of the guitar. When dry you can unclamp and they will fit right in place on the inside with no breaks.

You can just wet them and glue them on the inside straight off but there is a little more potential for them to snap that way as the thin unkerfed area does not get supported while being bent. Also I reckon you get a little smoother look by clamping on the outside first as the edges of the kerf are less likely to telegraph through giving a block effect.

I done up a tutorial on a Kerfing jig for the bandsaw called the Ksled, have a look in the Jigs area of this forum.

EDIT: Here ya go Brendan...viewtopic.php?f=24&t=2443

Cheers

Kim

[kiwigeo]

I run my linings over the bending iron with a spritz of water. Im using John Halls kerf lining clamps.....with extra rubber bands to give more clamping pressure.

[jeffhigh]

I wet mine and clamp them to the outside to dry just like Kim.

[btjjdb]

Thanks guys for the replies.

WHat is the usual dimensions for the Kerfing and space between the cuts?

Brenden

[xray]

i think the distance between cuts depends on the radius of your guitar curves. If you have a cutaway or a small ukelele then you will have to allow a wider kerf for you cuts and smaller distance together (eg 4 mm), however if it is a standard size guitar with flowing smoother curves every 5mm is usually good. I have made my linings to 7mm in length on larger guitars and it works fine. As long as they are uniform and all the same it wouldnt matter too much.

[vandenboom]

Kim wrote:
I wet mine and clap the 'uncut' side to the 'outside' edge of the guitar. When dry you can unclamp and they will fit right in place on the inside with no breaks.

I love these little gems on this forum - will be using this trick next time for sure!! Thanks. Frank.

[Kim]

U'r welcome Frank

[Bob Connor]

I wet mine, then put them in Fox bender for a few minutes, then dry clamp them on to the sides while still hot.

Once they cool down they seem to hold their shape fairly well.

[Pete Howlett]

Since the purpose of reversed kerfed linings is to add greater stiffness to the sides why don't you just make em solid? Soak a couple of 12mm x 2.5mm strips, into the fox bender then laminate them up... I have been using Frank fords Gizmo for years though mine took about an hour to make and is less elegant than the aformentioned piece...

[WaddyT]

I used some of Kevin Ryan's A4 Kerfed Lining on my #5 build, and I love it. It's expensive as kerfed lining goes, but it bends in every direction, which makes it work well for backs with a lot of curve and dome. Nice stuff, and because I use the dentellones on the top, I can get two guitars out of one set. Here are a couple of pictures of the inside when I had the top off to re-top the guitar after a purfling mishap.
img~
img~

[Pete Howlett]

Kevin is an ace builder with some great ideas. Despite its ease of use, I don't think this is one of them...

[kiwigeo]

Pete Howlett wrote:
Kevin is an ace builder with some great ideas. Despite its ease of use, I don't think this is one of them...

Would you care to elaborate?

[WaddyT]

I find that interesting too. With the A-4 lining, there is more wood per square inch than anything but solid lining, and when glued to the side, it is as stiff as any other kerfed lining, if not stiffer.

[rocket]

Forgive my ignorance, the A4 linings, what are they? how are they produced? are they specifically used as guitar kerfing? I don't recall seeing any info on these before! Also Waddy, why have you used different linings at the back and front. Cheers Rod

[WaddyT]

Rod, it's a classical build, built in a solera. The sides are wrapped around the top, and the "dentellones" are glued in individually.

The back goes on last. In this situation, I had a mishap with the purfling on the top, and the only repair was to replace the top. (pictures in Build 5 in my photobucket albums, below - pages 10 & 11). Anyway, The A-4 Kerfed Lining is available at www.advancedshelltech.com. This is a company formed by Kevin Ryan to sell his Zipflex shell product and the A-4 Kerfed lining. The lining is cut on a laser cutter, and is kerfed on both sides, which allows greater flexibility in every direction. He also has special pieces for cutaway use that are kerfed even more closely.

[Lillian]

From the looks of them Rod, they were made on a Bridge City Jointmaker .

The concept is called Squiggle Wood.

youtu.be/

[WaddyT]

I had the link wrong, above, but I edited and fixed it.

[kiwigeo]

Squigglewood.......cute. Wonder if Tim S has any squiggletonewood....Im gonna make me a squiggle guitar.

[Allen]

That's a heck of a lot of money for something like that. I'm wondering when they will decide that they were a bit over priced for a good idea, but little in the way of hardware expense, and offer them at a sever discount?

[Lillian]

If you are talking about Bridge City Allen, I doubt it. They have an odd business model, aimed towards the hobbyist with lots of money. They tend to do limited runs of things, giving them "collectible" status before they are even manufactured. You rarely see a Bridge City tool for sale on eBay, and if you do, the opening bid or reserve is usually for more than the owner paid for it, which was steep to begin with. But these aren't just overpriced tools. All the reviews I've read have raved about their design and quality of manufacturing.

At 1400 USD, the saw is more than a bit pricey and then you have to put the bldy thing together or pay another couple hundred to have them do it for you.

And yet, I want one. I think it would be perfect for a builder. I think it can handle just about every straight cut a luthier needs to make, with the exception of resawing.

For someone who is off the grid it's ideal. For someone who can only find time in the shed when its late, or very early, it could be a godsend. For someone who is afraid of a table saw, it is blessing. You would have to be seriously determined to cut a finger off with it.

[Pete Howlett]

Want one...

[Pete Howlett]

Kerfed lining is there to add thickness but another key property is stiffness. Making the sides stiff allows the energy to be concentrated in the front - Greg smallman principle.

[kiwigeo]

And heres me thinking the primary function of lining was to make attachment of the top/back onto the sides a bit easier.

[Pete Howlett]

To provide additional glue are yes, undeniable. However the recent developments with composite tops, lattice bracing etc have shown that thin sides and backs are not always essential. That we use thin backs and sides is part tradition, ease of working (we want to use solid wood rather than laminates) and a reluctance to get into new technologies. End of the day, I don't like the squiggle wood lining - it's ugly

However I really want one of those saws!