Native Olive Dread

[Bob Connor]

I've started building a dread out of Native Olive so I'll document the build here with any thoughts or ideas I come up with along the way. I know quite a few of you have sets so it may end up a useful resource.

The first thing I'll say is if you bring your back and side sets down to thickness with a wide belt sander (like we do) stock up on paper.

I changed the paper three times getting the sides down to .080" and in desperation threw some 36 grit on the sander. To my amazement it also started to clog. (this was bringing it down 1/8th of a turn at a time so I wasn't trying to hog a lot off in one pass)

The only way I could clean the paper was with a wire file brush. It simply laughed at he rubber sandpaper cleaner.

Don't be discouraged though, it works nicely, glues easily and is a dream to bend with the least amount of springback I've seen.

It has an unusual smell that I've been having trouble describing. Quite pungent, vanillery with overtones of some sort of sweet alcohol. I've had a few people sniff it and no one seems to be able to put their finger on what it is. At one stage I thought it smelled like beer farts after a night on Bundy. I'd be interested to see what everyone else thinks.

Native Olive is difficult to get in decent sizes due to heart shake and someof it will have worm holes. There is some discolouration around the worm holes in the sides that you can see in the following photos and when bending some of the natural wax exuded from the holes. It will sand out but this is very dense wood so it'll take some work.

I think that we'll have to accept that the worm holes are part and parcel of this wood if we want to get it in any quantity. I hope Tim jumps in here as he knows more about it than me.

This guitar is going to have a Lutz top and the top will be braced to suit a blugrass rhythm player. I have access to some really nice dreads here so I'll be able to compare.

Here are some pics of where it's at.







Bob

[Dave White]

At one stage I thought it smelled like beer farts after a night on Bundy.

Bob,

That sounds like an advertising copyman's dream - I can't wait to see the advertising campaign for this new wonder zoot

Interesting stuff - keep the pictures coming.

[TimS]

Well Bob,

I think you have pretty much covered the bases on Native Olive. I would however add that Native Olive tone changes quite dramatically as it seasons. Sanding is an issue I have tried to cut the sets as thin as possible to reduce the amount ot be removed. I have only built (3/4 built)one Native Olive guitar and found that when I was using the epoxy filling method that the surface didn't absorb the filler very well. It might have needed some thinners/solvent washed into it but I am not sure. Given its fine grain it probably doesn't require this anyway.

I notice that your sides are out of the mould. Have you had any issue with the sides springing back at the waste?

regards

Tim

[kiwigeo]

It has an unusual smell that I've been having trouble describing. Quite pungent, vanillery with overtones of some sort of sweet alcohol. I've had a few people sniff it and no one seems to be able to put their finger on what it is. At one stage I thought it smelled like beer farts after a night on Bundy. I'd be interested to see what everyone else thinks.

Bob

How about a new model....the "Smelly Barge Arse"?

[Sam Price]

Nothing can be worse that the smell of freshly sanded Ovangkol....when I first recieved the set I thought a Spanish dog had peed on it..

This olive wood though....I have been really WASing over this stuff for ages...don't care about the smell, it looks great from here!!

[Serge]

Now talk about something different!

Thanks for sharing this Bob, it really looks great and the description of the smell must be rather attractive!

Keep us up to date, it sounds like a an interesting project mate!

Serge

[Hesh1956]

Oh - what's that look like?

What?

What's that look like to you?

Looks like Native Olive to me......

Smell

What?

What smell like?

Smells like Native Olive to me.....

Taste

WHAT?

TASTE, What taste like?

Tastes like native Olive to me.........



Did you guys in OZ get Popeye on TV? You do have TV don't ya..... (running for cover here )

Bob it looks great and I was glad to hear that it bends well. So I should have asked Tim to waste his sand paper and thickness it for me.......

Keep the progress pics coming until this one is done - tomorrow....

[TimS]

Good thought Hesh.... Good thought!

[BillyT]

Geesh Bob! That looks great! I love these woods in the white maybe I'll do a guitar in Thompson's[¹] next!



[¹] Thompson's - an American wood peservative that leaves little appearing residue. It's not known to exist in Australia

[Dennis Leahy]

"I thought it smelled like beer farts after a night on Bundy. I'd be interested to see what everyone else thinks. "

Gee, I cant wait to smell it! Supposedly, much of the Brazilian Rosewood actually disappeared to make perfume. Now we know what that captivating smell is that Elle MacPherson is wearing.

What the hell are you Aussies putting in your beer? Vanilla? The never mention that on the Foster's commercials. (The only Aussie beer advertised in the US - I know it isn't really among your favorites.)

The worms do seem to attack the high quality woods, don't they.

Thanks for the blow-by-blow, Bob. Hope it sounds as nice as what you're thinking it will.

Dennis

[Allen]

For those not from the land of plenty Bundy is a rum made in Queensland. Nothing tastes quite like it. They've got some great commercials too. If you are on broadband check out their site

http://www.bundabergrum.com.au

Love those progress pictures Bob. Looking forward to the updates.

[Kim]

Sheesh Bob,

I only live around an hours drive from Tim's house and I STILL do not have any native olive. Oh sure, I have tapped the stuff all over the place and keep talk'in it up because it is such fetching wood, not to much bling with a stack of ring. Anyhow I have been bugging Tim to part with a billet for over 12 months but we just don't seem to get there as there is always sooo much to look at in Mr Spittle's Tonewood emporium

Anyhow, I look forward to seeing what you and Dave make of this stuff, it just has so much promise and in the hands of McGuitars I am sure justice will be done. So far so good old son, keep them images coming.

Cheers

Kim

[Bob Connor]

No problems with springback in the waist Tim. It came straight out of the bender, had the neck and tail blocks glued out of the mold then the linings were glued in as soon as the Titebond was dry. I didn't really give it a chance to get cantakerous.

They are reverse kerf linings which tend to keep things fairly stiff anyway.

I bent some Sassafras a few weeks back which would have to be the easiest wood on the planet to bend with absolutely no springback. Heaps more pliable than Indian Rosewood.

Hesh we used to get Popeye but I think the last series ran in 1963.

Dennis - Bundy is a sweet, dark rum which has been used to power tractors, is an excellent substitute for formalin as well as it's usual use as a general anaesthetic. I love it. And as Allen says the ads are brilliant.

Don't get me wrong. The smell is not at all unpleasant, just unusual and I can't put my finger on what it is.

It's certainly not like Ovangkol Sam, which I agree has a shocking bouquet.

I hope to have the back on later this week but I'm waiting on some more sandpaper which may hold things up.

Bob

[Dennis Leahy]

OK, sorry to cast aspersions on Bundy.

From this sentence "...I thought it smelled like beer farts after a night on Bundy", I thought Bundy was a location, like maybe Bundy was a place sort of like the Mexican Riviera, known for lots of parties fueled by alcohol. Now I realize it is the fuel. Shows my ignorance of Oz.

So, Native Olive smells like rum. That's a much more pleasant aroma than what I thought you were saying!

Dennis

[Dave Anderson]

Good looking rims Bob! I would love to build a guitar out of native olive some time.
From all the talk about it here,It sounds like a super tonewood even if it is tough to sand.

[Bob Connor]

I got the back down to thickness yesterday.

Here's a pic of what the belt sander looked like afterward.

I tried to be fairly light on the sanding, bringing it down an eigth of a turn at a time.

This is 38 grit paper or what Dave and I call chomper grade.

Note that this was only localised on one area of the belt.

Cheers

Bob

[Kim]

Wow, looks like a job for the Wagner safe t plane to get this stuff down quick.

Cheers

Kim

[Bob Connor]

The Native Olive feels fairly heavy.

The back, after glueing and carving the braces, weighs in at 416 grams.

This is a dreadn@ught with the back 1 inch oversize.

Does anyone have a back glued up and braced that they could weigh for comparison?

Or does anyone keep data on this?


Regardless of the weight it still has a nice tap tone at this stage of building.

Cheers

Bob

[Allen]

I've got a Qld. Black Walnut back cut pretty well to finished dimensions for my petite jumbo. Overall dimensions similar to a OOO/OM. Braced with Engelman and thicknessed to .093. Ready to install. Weights in at 272 grams.

[Bob Connor]

I got the back glued today.

Total weight of the back and side assembly is 894 grams.

I have a Mahogany dread in the same state which weighs 710 grams.

Quite a difference.

Bob

[Serge]

Whew hew! talk about heavy wood dude!

[Tom Morici]

Bob,

I find that Native Olive back and side assembly weight as normal for a dread. I would think no more heavier than rosewood.

May I inquire of the wood used for neck and tail blocks, linings, and back braces. Could be a lot of weight in those parts.

I like the weight of a guitar to be balanced so I use different woods for tail block,linings, and back braces, to acheive this. This is based on the wood I use for back and sides and neck and fingerboard woods.

In my experience balance plays a roll in tone and volume.

I have had owned two very light weight guitars in the past. One was a handmade classical, (no label) the other a Yamaha medium size body steel string. Both where surprisingly loud, but the tone of these left much to be desired. I would describe the tone as harsh.

Thanks for taking the time to detail this build including weights.

Tom

[Bob Connor]

Hi Tom

The back braces were Engelmann Spruce and the linings, head and tail blocks are Honduras Mahogany.

The Mahogany is plantation grown in Fiji but in general I haven't noticed any difference in density or weight to South American Swietinia that I have previously used.

We can't get much Honduras here in Australia any more due to CITES resrictions so the Fijian stuff is a good alternative.

I'm not concerned about the weight of this guitar too much but just thought people might like to have a comparison.

I don't know that anyone has actually completed an instrument from this wood yet so it's all quite new ground we're covering here.

Tim Spittle has a Native Olive dready with an Adirondack top three quarters finished so I'm going to put Adi on this one for a comparison.

I'm still tipping that this will be a very, very nice tonewood - perhaps the best that we have here in Australia.

Cheers

Bob

[Hesh1956]

Bob I just dropped off an mahogany SJ at a new finisher who is doing poly finishes.

The box, completed with the neck removed weighs 688.3 grams......

This native olive is HEAVY........

[Bob Connor]

Hey Hesh, can you do me a favour and weigh the Native Olive back and side set that you have?

I only had the one set so I can't compare but maybe Tim can weigh some of his stock for a comparison.

I know that every set of a given species will exhibit different density, weight and stiffness characteristics.

I'm just wondering how variable the Native Olive might be.

Bob