Is westsystems epoxy sprayable?

[Stu]

I'm in the refinish stages of a neck through Gibson firebird with Blackwood neck & body and tiger myrtle carve top and using epoxy as a grainfiller . I have applied enough for levelling off the grain and pores with a few rub throughs here and there.

Now this is on a cumbersome neck through electric body shape and I'm
wondering whether I can thin down West systems epoxy to a point where I can spraycoat a final epoxy sealer prior to rubdown and nitro.

I've always assumed epoxy to be similar in usage as 2 pack automotive
clear in it's main usage of a hardener. Is it sprayable?

If I thin down the west systems with acetone or other applicable solvent, is this likely to cause cure problems. Has anyone else ever sprayed epoxy on ?

I've got no issue with spraying epoxy ,other than health issues and cleanup, similar to 2 pack in that regard.

### EDIT for an add-on ###
I found out from the Westsystems website that it is indeed sprayable but extremely toxic. Similar needs as 2 pack with boothing required.

An excerpt from the site.......

Spraying epoxy

We do not recommend spraying epoxy products because the health and safety risks are enormous. As epoxy leaves a spray gun nozzle, it is reduced to tiny droplets (spray mist). You can easily inhale epoxy that is suspended in the air. It can cause extensive lung damage and other health problems.

The spray mist can settle on your skin, causing sensitization and allergic reactions. It can settle on your eyes, injuring them.Compared to other application methods, spraying increases the amount of hazardous volatile components released from the epoxy. Using solvents to thin the epoxy for spraying adds to the health and safety risks. These hazards are similar to those of any spray painting operation, involving both health and flammability concerns.

If you are determined to spray epoxy, control hazardous vapor and spray mist by using isolation and enclosure, such as a properly designed, ventilated and filtered spray booth. In any case, if you spray epoxy, you must use an air-supplied respirator and full-body protective clothing!


Cheers, Stu

[Allen]

The fellows at work have been spraying some epoxy fillers on some timber doors for some high end building. They are all complaining of blinding headaches, nausea etc. and don't ever want to have to use the stuff again. And thats in their full suits with air feed respirators and in the down draft spray booths.

Use a lot more caution that your average automotive clear.

[Craig]

G'day Stu,

Geez ,that sounds particularly nasty . Don't even consider it.

Get Kim to do it !! He loves the stuff !

There's another point worth mentioning. In my very limited experiments with epoxy ,I found that it doesn't dry to a very hard finish when using a diluted mix .It has that rubbery feel, which can't be a great base to lay your finish on.

I've gone off using epoxy as a pore filler mainly because of the health hazard and also the amines blush that rises to the surface of the epoxy some time after curing ,causing issues with some finishes,,,,,,at a later date ! ( 100,000 curses ! ) Sanding the stuff merely spreads the amines blush around .Cleaning it off with water and detergent ( the only thing that works ) puts you at risk of leaving a stain in the wood

Reminds me of the old saying : If it seems too good to be true , it generally is.

[Stu]

Thanks for that fellas. I won't be spraying this stuff at all, definitely not worth the risks involved.
Whenever I use or think about using epoxy, Kim's sorry tale always pops in the head. Must now be a word association thing.
Back to the old methods anyway.

Next question .......................

In regards to rub throughs during epoxy grainfilling, is it required to reapply epoxy so there are no rub throughs whatsoever? Do I have to produce an unbroken epoxy shell around the complete body for the nitro to bed over or am I taking things too far?

I'm wondering if any rub throughs will show up as blotchy/different coloured areas once nitro has been applied .


cheers, Stu

[Allen]

I've seen some blotchiness in NGR on rub throughs. Subtle, but enough to piss me off. Never seen it on mahogany or Indian Rosewood, though it looks like it should.

Now I dilute the epoxy with metho 50/50 and just give a wipe on /wipe off to wet out the surface evenly. No need to sand back after this, just a light tickle with a soft sanding pad or similar if required.

Be sure to wear your kit when you are wiping it on. Not seen the MSDS on it, but I'd bet that by adding metho, it makes the epoxy all that much more volatile and hazardous.

[Rick Turner]

Allen, what about the amine blush issue?

I now sand back the epoxy a bit, wash the surface with a damp maroon ScotchBrite pad, and then hit it with a coat of Waterlox before spraying subsequent coats of anything.

I did have some serious adhesion issues a couple of months ago that I put down to amine blush and no Waterlox.

Also, I'm not sure that spraying epoxy is much worse than spraying some of the catalyzed urethanes...which is not to say it isn't nasty, but you need to treat any of these catalyzed finishes as though they are poison...which they are. And nitro isn't any good for you, either. If I did not have a really good spray booth, I'd be varnishing.

[Cleaver]

Rick,
Wash first, then sand. If you sand first you are just spreading the blush around.
Link

[Allen]

I'd never heard of amine blush before a mention here on the forum a few weeks back. In hind sight I've only seen obvious blush once on an instrument that I flooded the surface. That one I took a sharp scrapper to in order to remove most of the epoxy down to the wood and level it out. Not had any issues with the finish.

I usually apply the epoxy by scraping it on and into the pores, then off. Not leaving any flooded surface. Only ever used WEST Systems.

I've got a uke made from NGR to do in the next couple of days, so Im going to be paying extra attention to how the process goes.

[Rick Turner]

Got it. Thanks, Link. Makes sense...

[schrammguitars]

Will naptha or acetone remove amine? I pore fill with devcon(sp?) 5 minute epoxy and haven't had any problems with my lacquer or french polish finishes.

[Cleaver]

No, it's water soluble. Use a little dish detergent and water followed by plain water.
Link