Some advice on filling rosette please

Dave Olds · Post by **Dave Olds** » Thu Oct 01, 2009 4:04 pm

I have made a segmented rosette using Rewarewa and Wenge - the Wenge has a number of small cracks in it which I think I will need to fill prior to finishing ( French Polish ). These look big in the photo - but are really not that bad. Is this a good candidate for spot filling with CA - or are there other recommendations.

If I use CA, should I seal the rosette first.

Thanks.
Dave

Craig · Post by **Craig** » Thu Oct 01, 2009 5:33 pm

G'day Dave,

It's a little too close to the spruce to be risking C.A. IMO ( C.A. stains spruce yellow ). you might get away with it , but I wouldn't risk it myself

You could maybe carefully seal the spruce with shellac first , but there still may be a chance of the C.A. wicking it's way into it .

I've got a similar situation at the moment with a rosette I'm working on . As I'm going to seal the spruce with egg white , I'm using eggwhite and fine saw dust of the same rosette wood to fill the cracks /large pores. Egg white and sawdust makes an excellent pore filler . So good, it'll be capable of filling those cracks you have , but try it on a bit of scrap Wenge first . Allen wrote a tutorial on egg white pore filling here in our tutorials section .

You could also use hot hide glue . !

From what I can see of it Dave , It's going to be a nice rosette

Dave Olds · Post by **Dave Olds** » Thu Oct 01, 2009 6:31 pm

Thanks Craig - I did think of egg white but have never used it as a pore filler before - maybe this is a good chance to give it a whirl. I will dig out that tutorial and check it out.

I have attached a pic of the entire rosette to put the size of the crack into perspective - I am hoping that under finish, the grain in the Rewarewa and Wenge will show good contrast.

Dave

Allen · Post by **Allen** » Thu Oct 01, 2009 6:37 pm

I thing that the egg white and wood dust would be your best choice for a FP finish. If you were to use lacquer it's easy to drop fill with more lacquer after the first spray session.

The egg white pore filler is about as easy and non toxic as your going to get when it comes to finishing.

Rick Turner · Post by **Rick Turner** » Thu Oct 01, 2009 6:50 pm

Why not shellac, then epoxy, sand, and more shellac? Often I find that clear filler is the least noticeable as it takes color on from it's surroundings.

Arnt · Post by **Arnt** » Thu Oct 01, 2009 9:02 pm

If you sealed the rosette channel prior to installing the rosette, it should be pretty safe to fill with CA. Personally, I would probably fill with epoxy, as I normally use epoxy for porefilling anyways, and I would apply shellac before and after the porefilling (like Rick suggests).

Those pores sure are huge.

Craig · Post by **Craig** » Thu Oct 01, 2009 9:21 pm

I didn't mention an epoxy fill because I, ( and others ) have had problems with the epoxy blush ( amines ) affecting the finish at a later stage .( known as "the fuzz" ) This has been most noticeable with a tru-oil finish , but also shellac. I understand system 3 doesn't produce this blush ,so that may work ,,,,if you have it .

As Rick says , a pore fill with anything but clear gives a slightly different look . When filling with saw dust the pores will take on the colour of the dust ( only a bit darker ). I like that look on the wood I'm using , but do a trial yourself on a piece of wenge scrap first to make sure you're happy with it. There's nothing to stop you using a darker wood to make your dust and thereby have darker coloured pores . In this case ,don't apply the egg white with sandpaper as in Allen's tutorial , just sprinkle some dust on and work in the egg white

Craig · Post by **Craig** » Fri Oct 02, 2009 7:48 am

One other thing I forgot to mention Dave . Leave the pore filling for as long as possible (no matter what you use as a filler )before leveling , to avoid any "sink back" that may want to occur at a later date .

Also, with your rosette having two types of woods , (I'm not sure if the Rewarewa has pores,,, doesn't look to have in your pics )) , but if it does, you'll have to be aware of the pore filling colour affecting it ( unless you can pore fill them separately ). If it doesn't have pores , you're good to go . Once again , try it on scrap first !

Your rosette looks very cool Dave !

We look forward to a pic of the guitar on completion

Rick Turner · Post by **Rick Turner** » Fri Oct 02, 2009 8:15 am

Amine blush can be removed with sanding and/or water. One recommendation is to use ScotchBrite with water. The amines are a waxy material that are not cut with ordinary solvents, but do wash away with water. Weird...

Google "amine blush" and be amazed at how much there is on-line about it, mostly from the boat building community.

Dave Olds · Post by **Dave Olds** » Fri Oct 02, 2009 11:56 am

Hey guys,

Thanks very much for your comments ....

I think I will do a bit of testing with both the egg whites and with CA, on some offcuts of Wenge. I don't believe pores will be a problem in the Rewarewa, and I hope I can target the filling just to the bits that need it. Will let you know the outcome.

Dave

Craig · Post by **Craig** » Fri Oct 02, 2009 1:15 pm

I read of one " expert " saying the amine won't sand off . All you will be doing is spreading it around . Based on my own experience , I think he may be right too .Like Rick, he also states sovents won't touch it ,but soap and water will apparently.
I have this thought of sanding through the epoxy filler exposing the bare wood without realizing it, then hitting it with soapy water . Might it not leave a stain ?

Another point about egg white worth mentioning is that it tends to turn the wood to a slightly darker colour . In some cases with a red hue . I like this affect personally . Don't be too shocked by this change when you trial it on some scrap of the same wood you're working with, as the final finish you're using will change that yet again.

Interesting but weird, is the fact that it won't stain Spruce any more than an ultra blonde shellac would . I've got no idea why

Although leaving the filler on for as long as possible before final leveling will help a lot with any "sink back " that may want to happen with some fillers , it isn't the complete answer.I've used some epoxy fillers which did the "sink back" thing, months or even years after . I can't say they all do it as obviously I haven't used them all. I guess you could call the look as giving it 'character' , but I'd sooner not have it . I'm sure Rick ,with his amount of experience,has better info about this 'sink back' than I.
Egg white dries to a crystalline form , but there certainly is some shrinkage before reaching that state . Luckily this doesn't take long to happen . Because of this crystalline state it takes on , it's hard to imagine further sink back at a later time ,( providing you let it dry off long enough before final leveling ) a few days or more would be ideal.

John Steele · Post by **John Steele** » Fri Oct 02, 2009 2:42 pm

Maybe its just my old eyes, but I'd say if you are going to french polish, why not seal the wenge with shellac and then use the traditional pumice filler? Considering its a rosette as opposed to back & sides, seems like a pretty small task. Looks to me like you did an excellent job on the rosette. Very tight lines.
The wenge just needs to be filled.
J

Ricardo · Post by **Ricardo** » Sun Oct 04, 2009 7:59 pm

I would use the shellac (pumic) to fill it, nice work

pat foster · Post by **pat foster** » Mon Oct 05, 2009 5:12 am

I'd use a splinter of Wenge, as they should be plentiful.

Doesn't have to be accurately sized like for an inlay, but it would at least be of the same material.

Pat

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Some advice on filling rosette please

Some advice on filling rosette please

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