Blackwood back

Hank · Post by **Hank** » Fri Sep 18, 2009 2:19 pm

Hi Guys

Question for the brains trust

Can you have a 3 piece back?

I have a stick of figured Ottways Blackwood, It's stunning, but it's only 175 wide and I need to finish 362.
Can I put a 15mm centre strip?, maybe a different species, ebony would be nice?
Do you then make the centre graft wider to cover the dodgy bit,

if this all sounds to dodgy please tell me,

Cheers
Hank

Bob Connor · Post by **Bob Connor** » Fri Sep 18, 2009 4:08 pm

Sounds fine to me Hank.

Martin's D35 is a 3 piece back.

As decent quartersawn wood gets harder to come by I imagine we'll be seeing a lot more 3 and 4 piece backs and tops.

Mark McLean · Post by **Mark McLean** » Fri Sep 18, 2009 4:23 pm

Hank
Check out the 3-piece back on Taffy's beautiful "Madeleine" guitar in the Gallery section of the forum.
Mark

rocket · Post by **rocket** » Fri Sep 18, 2009 6:46 pm

Actually hank a couple of builds ago i chose to use a 3 piece top because i didn't like the grain on the extremities of the lower bout so i introduced a bookmatched strip about 55 ml wide,,[so in fact it was really a four piece top] down the center so i could cut off the offending area. The center strip was a prettygood match to the adjacent material and was also partially obscured by the fret board, strings and tailpiece, as this was an archtop. So in the end one could hardly tell the top was made from four pieces of sitka spruce. Go for it!

Lillian · Post by **Lillian** » Sat Sep 19, 2009 2:50 am

Hank, it really comes down to whether or not you shoot do a decent joint and glue it up properly. If you can, you won't have any issues with it. Threat it the same way you would a two piece back.

Now if you start drifting towards something that resembles a lute back, then you will have to take into account the back arch and cut the joints so that you achieve the arch you want because the stave will be too narrow to flex much, if at all.

Hesh1956 · Post by **Hesh1956** » Sat Sep 19, 2009 8:44 am

Hi Hank - I like your idea of using ebony as the center piece of a 3 piece back.

Personally I have never been a fan of the 3 piece back regardless of how some folks tend to drool and get shivers over anything that Martin does. The D-35 with a three piece back came into existence solely to make use of smaller pieces of BRW as the BRW supply dried up. It was done out of necessity and the resulting guitars can sound very nice.

But to my design eye the 3 piece back adds body length "V" shape to an object that is very beautiful IMO because of it's curves. I learned long ago that if you don't know what to do repetition of shape, design, color will often save the day and sometimes lead you to a design place that you may like even better. With this said the look of a 3 piece back with a center wedge never worked for me.

In the incarnation that you are describing the center piece is not a wedge and mimics the straight lines of the neck. That's why I like your idea.

Ebony sounds cool too. I have seen lots of 3 piece back guitars where the builder will frame nicely figured wood with a center panel of some other kind of highly figured wood. If the colors do match the pattern of the figure often does not... It's kind of like wearing purple socks with a green suit....

As mentioned above at least bookmatching and joining the center panel helps a great deal.

But ebony works with anything and having the center panel the same width from top to bottom eliminates that stinking wedge look that IMHO does not match any other shape on a guitar (unless it's a flying V).

If unsure do what I do and layout the pieces on your bench with a center ebony section and then stare at it for a week, month, or until golf season is over and see how you like it.

Paul B · Post by **Paul B** » Sat Sep 19, 2009 9:40 am

Saw your post yesterday and have been trying to find a pic of Lars Rasmussen's guitar with a three piece back, so I could show you a good example.

Never been a fan of a three piece back myself, but Lars found a bunch of Brasilian that would only work as a three piece, and he really did it justice, actually, full-on jaw dropping justice. The pic is over on the OLF somewhere but seems to have been deleted, maybe one of the other guys has a copy?

So yes, go for it. Just treat each join the way you would your normal center seam and you'll be right.

Paul B · Post by **Paul B** » Sat Sep 19, 2009 8:06 pm

This is from Lars, it looks even better with finish on it. In my opinion, this is how you do it. That is; don't hide it, make it a feature.

Allen · Post by **Allen** » Sun Sep 20, 2009 5:29 am

Yes, Lars nailed that one.

I think that adding the extra purflings and framing the center like that really sets it off, saying that you didn't run out of decent sized wood, but rather it's part of the design, and may have even cut down larger pieces to build with a particular design in mind.

Paul B · Post by **Paul B** » Sun Sep 20, 2009 8:04 am

Oh, and I invited him over here.

Hesh1956 · Post by **Hesh1956** » Mon Sep 21, 2009 1:06 am

Lar's 3 piece back is one of the very few examples of a 3 piece back that I really like. Note, as mentioned the framing, same wood used on the center panel, and repetition of the "V" shape on the butt wedge.

Lars has an excellent artist's eye.

Have you folks seen the mahogany guitar that he made out of mahogany that was used on a boat and had holes in it? Incredible!

Paul B · Post by **Paul B** » Mon Sep 21, 2009 7:16 pm

Hesh1956 wrote: Have you folks seen the mahogany guitar that he made out of mahogany that was used on a boat and had holes in it? Incredible!

Yep, the bloke has got some serious chops, and he hasn't built that many guitars (half a dozen?), please tell me he's built a couple hundred. It's nice to be able to sit back and watch as one of your favorite builders develops. He totally craps all over my stuff.

Hesh1956 · Post by **Hesh1956** » Tue Sep 22, 2009 9:56 pm

Here's a pic of the mahogany guitar made from salvaged lumber from a boat that Douglas Fairbanks and Mary Pickford used that Lars built - incredible!!!

kiwigeo · Post by **kiwigeo** » Wed Sep 23, 2009 9:53 am

Now just hang on a minute....in the background right...looks supiciously like a lute mold.

Paul B wrote:This is from Lars, it looks even better with finish on it. In my opinion, this is how you do it. That is; don't hide it, make it a feature.

Hank · Post by **Hank** » Wed Sep 23, 2009 3:05 pm

Wow! this is why I love this forum........

Thank you all for your responses,

So much to think about, seems i spend more time looking, thinking and drinking, ahh you've gotta love it

Lillian you've made think about the belly? bulge? thingy and i'm thinking the ebony may not be as flexible as i'd need it to be,

When its finished(next April the way i'm heading) it should be a senorita size classical based on the small Torres in courtnall's book

Hesh the mahogany piece is something else too , I love the symmetry

Thanks again for your thoughts

cheers Hank

Lillian · Post by **Lillian** » Wed Sep 23, 2009 3:32 pm

I need to get better about converting between mm and inches. I converted your numbers and realized that you really don't need much to give you the width you are looking for.

Unless you are building a tight arc on the back, I don't think that ebony's stiffness will be much of an issue.

There is another option. Depending on the wood grain, you can take the cut offs from the waist and glue them onto the lower bout to make up the width you need.

Arnt · Post by **Arnt** » Wed Sep 23, 2009 5:53 pm

Lars is pretty much my favourite contemporary Scandinavian builder and as soon as I manage to locate exactly where it is I am planning bulglarize his stash of BRW.

vandenboom · Post by **vandenboom** » Wed Sep 23, 2009 8:52 pm

Most of the responses above have been about doing it nicely/artistically. This one has none of that, but it is a bit of laugh.
This was my first guitar which I made out of stuff from around the house.
This back was made from some mountain ash drawer fronts - not wide enough hence 3 piece, and not long enough hence finger jointed section in the lower bout area. Evidence of drawer knob location smack in the middle!!

btw, top was 4 piece - I used some cedar skirting boards.
Overall sound was reasonable which amazed me given the materials + first attempt.
Frank

Taffy Evans · Post by **Taffy Evans** » Fri Oct 02, 2009 2:26 pm

Heres a 4 piece back.....and its blackwood.

Dennis Leahy · Post by **Dennis Leahy** » Fri Oct 02, 2009 7:09 pm

Here's another example, like Taffy's, that's a 4-piece back. If you really like symmetry or if you have a small piece for the center wedge, then you can bookmatch a pair of smaller pieces and get a wedge wide enough for the job.

This Cocobolo set wasn't wide enough for even a parlor back by itself, and the center wedge came from resawing a curly Katalox fingerboard blank that had a crack in it.

Dennis

Allen · Post by **Allen** » Fri Oct 02, 2009 8:07 pm

Some really clever uses of small pieces of wood, that are producing some really outstanding results. Makes me think of all kinds of possibilities with the stuff in the bunker.

Hank · Post by **Hank** » Mon Oct 05, 2009 8:11 am

Taff if only i'd seen that back an hour earlier! I've opted for the smaller wedge similar to the back Dennis has done,
it's all good,

Frank, you've got to love that guitar, the handle hole, the finger joint, thanks

Cheers Hank

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