At this point in my life, I am more of a builder than a player, which should explain where my question is coming from. (I started building so I could learn how to play.)
Why does a neck taper in thickness from nut to heel? Doesn't changing the thickness change how you hold the neck? Is a thinner neck easier to play than a thicker neck? The words "fast" and "thin" always seemed to be paired together when describing a neck, if its a thin one.
One of the gentlemen I work with should have retired 9 years ago. He has recently returned to playing the guitar and frequently plays for a few hours at a time. He is finding that it is easier for him to grip farther up the neck then in the first position. He thinks that it is because the strings are spaced more to his liking, but I have to wonder if it isn't easier because he doesn't have to close his hand as much.
Thoughts? Comments?
Neck Questions
Hi Lillian,
This is strictly a player preference thing. The tapper and depth is something you adjust to suit the requirements of the individual. Me, I have big fingers and make my open "A" "Am" and "E" cord with only 2 fingers and "Em" with 1 and this is with a neck that is 1 7/8 at the nut. I find it a little dificult to play a neck that is 1 /3/4" or less at the nut and if the neck is too thin at the back or what they call a shallow "C", I find that my hand fatigues very quickly. It seems with a larger hand you need to fill it more so it does not cramp up and restrict circulation.
My best advice is to head on down to your local guitar shop with a plastic profile gauge, pack of tissues and a note pad and start play'in until you find what fits 'you'. Once you settle on something, pull out the tissues and drape one over the finish on the neck to protect it, and start taking profiles up the neck noting the fret locations for reference as you go. Then go home and copy that sucker right onto your own guitar.
Once you have a your first done you will have a datum point from which to refer in future to either make the next wider, deeper or what ever is required.
Cheers
Kim
This is strictly a player preference thing. The tapper and depth is something you adjust to suit the requirements of the individual. Me, I have big fingers and make my open "A" "Am" and "E" cord with only 2 fingers and "Em" with 1 and this is with a neck that is 1 7/8 at the nut. I find it a little dificult to play a neck that is 1 /3/4" or less at the nut and if the neck is too thin at the back or what they call a shallow "C", I find that my hand fatigues very quickly. It seems with a larger hand you need to fill it more so it does not cramp up and restrict circulation.
My best advice is to head on down to your local guitar shop with a plastic profile gauge, pack of tissues and a note pad and start play'in until you find what fits 'you'. Once you settle on something, pull out the tissues and drape one over the finish on the neck to protect it, and start taking profiles up the neck noting the fret locations for reference as you go. Then go home and copy that sucker right onto your own guitar.
Once you have a your first done you will have a datum point from which to refer in future to either make the next wider, deeper or what ever is required.
Cheers
Kim
-
Nick
- Blackwood
- Posts: 3640
- Joined: Thu Feb 26, 2009 11:20 am
- Location: Christchurch, New Zealand
- Contact:
Interesting question Lillian. I don't know the exact reason for a taper on the back of the neck but I'm guessing that it's mainly a strength thing. I love using analogies to explain things (a nasty habit I have)so use the analogy of a suspension bridge. At it's centre it is at it's thinest but as it travels back & to it's end/origin point it thickens up to provide a progressively stronger structure as the loads are deflected back to it's anchor point, in engineering a triangle or wedge shape is one of the strongest shapes you can have.
The possible reason for your colleague's comfort would be as you say, the wider spring spacing further up the neck. I take it you are refering to a steel string? Classicals have that wider spacing right from the nut so I would assume he could play a classical using all the neck and in comfort. Scale length can aid playing comfort also.
Just a few ideas to throw in the pot, may not even be the right answers but somebody else with a more technical knowledge may be able to shed some light.
The possible reason for your colleague's comfort would be as you say, the wider spring spacing further up the neck. I take it you are refering to a steel string? Classicals have that wider spacing right from the nut so I would assume he could play a classical using all the neck and in comfort. Scale length can aid playing comfort also.
Just a few ideas to throw in the pot, may not even be the right answers but somebody else with a more technical knowledge may be able to shed some light.
"Jesus Loves You."
Nice to hear in church but not in a Mexican prison.
Nice to hear in church but not in a Mexican prison.
Bigger brains than mine probably have the answer, but it could also just come down to something as simple as it's pleasing to the eye for a slight taper in thickness from fret board to back of neck.
One thing I did note on the last 2 guitars that were shipped overseas, was that the neck was wider at the nut than my previous ones, but I shaped the neck according to the template I got from Luthier Supplies. Although the neck was larger in dimension than I'd done previously, I found that the shape of it was much more comfortable in my hand. Alan Hamley commented that he liked the feel of it as well. Larger, but didn't feel like it was.
One thing I did note on the last 2 guitars that were shipped overseas, was that the neck was wider at the nut than my previous ones, but I shaped the neck according to the template I got from Luthier Supplies. Although the neck was larger in dimension than I'd done previously, I found that the shape of it was much more comfortable in my hand. Alan Hamley commented that he liked the feel of it as well. Larger, but didn't feel like it was.
-
ozziebluesman
- Blackwood
- Posts: 1550
- Joined: Wed Oct 10, 2007 9:12 am
- Location: Townsville
- Contact:
Hi there Lillian,
I can't answer your question on neck thickness but as a player I have a few thoughts.
As you know there are a few variables and it is a personal thing when it comes to neck profile. Maton acoustic guitars here in Oz are about 45 mm nut width, use a 12 radius on there fingerboards and I think it is a C shape neck. I feel they have it right and their guitars would suit many players and styles of playing. I own a Larrivee that has a 16 fingerboard radius and a wider fingerboard with a shallow neck. Lovely guitar for finger style playing. Martin have a number of neck profiles C and V neck shapes all very differnt to play.
Allens guitars felt wonderful to play. The neck profile is a bit chunkier than I am used to but very playable. The short scale model suited my style of playing as I like to bend notes. I have small hands and these guitars where perfect. As Kim stated if you have large hands, fat fingers a wider fingerboard is almost essential.
In my opinion the playability of an acoustic instrument is paramount so spend plenty of time chosing the right sized guitar, scale length and neck profile for you.
Hope that has been some help.
Cheers
Alan
I can't answer your question on neck thickness but as a player I have a few thoughts.
As you know there are a few variables and it is a personal thing when it comes to neck profile. Maton acoustic guitars here in Oz are about 45 mm nut width, use a 12 radius on there fingerboards and I think it is a C shape neck. I feel they have it right and their guitars would suit many players and styles of playing. I own a Larrivee that has a 16 fingerboard radius and a wider fingerboard with a shallow neck. Lovely guitar for finger style playing. Martin have a number of neck profiles C and V neck shapes all very differnt to play.
Allens guitars felt wonderful to play. The neck profile is a bit chunkier than I am used to but very playable. The short scale model suited my style of playing as I like to bend notes. I have small hands and these guitars where perfect. As Kim stated if you have large hands, fat fingers a wider fingerboard is almost essential.
In my opinion the playability of an acoustic instrument is paramount so spend plenty of time chosing the right sized guitar, scale length and neck profile for you.
Hope that has been some help.
Cheers
Alan
"Play to express, not to impress"
Alan Hamley
http://www.hamleyfineguitars.com/
Alan Hamley
http://www.hamleyfineguitars.com/
Lillian my friend the strings are closer together at the nut end of a guitar and farther apart at the bridge end of the guitar to make it easier to play. At the nut end we are pressing or fretting individual strings in specific places. For cording often cords are easier to do if our fingers can rely on each other, not unlike how a broken finger is taped to an adjacent finger, for support.
At the bridge end the strings have greater separation, generally, to make it easier to select individual strings when need be.
IMHO because I don't know this for sure but guitars that are designed for music that is more complex requiring clean individual notes will have greater spacing everywhere. Classical guitars are an example of this to me.
Since you have not learned to play guitar yet you are at a bit of a disadvantage when it comes to trying different necks to see what works well for you. As such it might be a good idea to try to learn some very basic playing while taking the very good advice above and visiting a guitar store and trying different necks. The style of music that you are interested in learning to play will also impact what necks work best for you.
Notice that Les Pauls have very thin and narrow necks. Notice too that a Strat has more radius to the fret boards than say a Martin acoustic guitar. A Wayne Henderson may have no radius to the fret board.
I have lots of players over here at my place in the evenings and I have made some observations that may help you. Generally speaking people with smaller hands appreciate a nut width of 1.75" or less. Flat pickers also seem to like a closer spacing where finger stylists seem to prefer a wider spacing at the bridge. Of course these are generalizations and YMMV as everyone's does.
The progressions from one chord to another is where a well fit neck to an individual player can be very helpful or unmanageable... If you have some time before building your neck perhaps learn 3 chords and then go try out a bunch of different guitars.
Personally I like Taylor necks and the Martin semi-V feels great to me too but everyone is different. A neck that is too wide for a player is difficult to play because the player's hand may not be large enough to make the reaches required for playing.
OTOH a neck that is too narrow for a specific player's hands will not provide the support and leverage that is necessary to play with ease.
In any event when and if you go to the guitar store and try out different necks have a small bottle of hand sanitizer in your pocket to use AFTER you are done trying out guitars. No telling if some snot nosed punk with swine flu sampled a guitar just before you did...
It's hard being me....
At the bridge end the strings have greater separation, generally, to make it easier to select individual strings when need be.
IMHO because I don't know this for sure but guitars that are designed for music that is more complex requiring clean individual notes will have greater spacing everywhere. Classical guitars are an example of this to me.
Since you have not learned to play guitar yet you are at a bit of a disadvantage when it comes to trying different necks to see what works well for you. As such it might be a good idea to try to learn some very basic playing while taking the very good advice above and visiting a guitar store and trying different necks. The style of music that you are interested in learning to play will also impact what necks work best for you.
Notice that Les Pauls have very thin and narrow necks. Notice too that a Strat has more radius to the fret boards than say a Martin acoustic guitar. A Wayne Henderson may have no radius to the fret board.
I have lots of players over here at my place in the evenings and I have made some observations that may help you. Generally speaking people with smaller hands appreciate a nut width of 1.75" or less. Flat pickers also seem to like a closer spacing where finger stylists seem to prefer a wider spacing at the bridge. Of course these are generalizations and YMMV as everyone's does.
The progressions from one chord to another is where a well fit neck to an individual player can be very helpful or unmanageable... If you have some time before building your neck perhaps learn 3 chords and then go try out a bunch of different guitars.
Personally I like Taylor necks and the Martin semi-V feels great to me too but everyone is different. A neck that is too wide for a player is difficult to play because the player's hand may not be large enough to make the reaches required for playing.
OTOH a neck that is too narrow for a specific player's hands will not provide the support and leverage that is necessary to play with ease.
In any event when and if you go to the guitar store and try out different necks have a small bottle of hand sanitizer in your pocket to use AFTER you are done trying out guitars. No telling if some snot nosed punk with swine flu sampled a guitar just before you did...
It's hard being me....
Gentlemen (yes, I do use that term rather loosely, for the most part that is), thank you for your answers. It has given me much food for thought, something that I probably should have done before diving into this project, but where's the fun in that?
Allen, that template wouldn't happen to be the 1930 Martin OM one would it?
I'm off to find where I squirreled the Woolson neck jig plans for safe keeping. I had made arrangements to buy neck jigs for an individual who is closing down his shop, but somehow he confused me for someone else and sold them out from under my fingers. Oh well. Not a biggie really. I should make the jig anyway.
Allen, that template wouldn't happen to be the 1930 Martin OM one would it?
I'm off to find where I squirreled the Woolson neck jig plans for safe keeping. I had made arrangements to buy neck jigs for an individual who is closing down his shop, but somehow he confused me for someone else and sold them out from under my fingers. Oh well. Not a biggie really. I should make the jig anyway.
-
Joe Sustaire
- Myrtle
- Posts: 92
- Joined: Sun Nov 23, 2008 1:23 am
- Location: Talihina Oklahoma
- Contact:
Yes it's the 1930's Martin. S1.760. I just had a look at the list on Luthiersupplies and the next one down the list S1.762 is the modern version of this template. You might be able to find a new guitar with this style of neck to try out. If just a little too pronounced then the 1930's one may be spot on for you.
-
Nick
- Blackwood
- Posts: 3640
- Joined: Thu Feb 26, 2009 11:20 am
- Location: Christchurch, New Zealand
- Contact:
Our hands, being the main tactile bits of our senses, seem to know when things "feel right". So I'm sure as you shape the neck and run your hand up & down it ( 
) you'll know when you reach that "That just feels right" point in the process. I know you haven't played yet but I think it's a very intuitive thing when something just gets to that point where you go "That's it!" It's one of my favourite parts of a build, feeling the shape emerge & then the Eureka moment. The Martin OOO I own was bought solely just because it seemed to fit right under my hand and I didn't analyse the guitar at all, it just felt as though it should be there. A few other players have picked it up and said the same thing. A well shaped neck can make the difference between it being played & wanting to be played.
I was thinking some more on your original question and I think that the back taper is also a feel thing, the sides expand as we go up the neck and I think the hand expects to feel the whole neck get proportionally bigger too. I think a neck would feel funny to us (we would may not necessarily be able to pin point the problem, it just wouldn't feel right (there's that term again!)) if it's width tapered but it's thickness stayed parallel with the fingerboard.
) you'll know when you reach that "That just feels right" point in the process. I know you haven't played yet but I think it's a very intuitive thing when something just gets to that point where you go "That's it!" It's one of my favourite parts of a build, feeling the shape emerge & then the Eureka moment. The Martin OOO I own was bought solely just because it seemed to fit right under my hand and I didn't analyse the guitar at all, it just felt as though it should be there. A few other players have picked it up and said the same thing. A well shaped neck can make the difference between it being played & wanting to be played.I was thinking some more on your original question and I think that the back taper is also a feel thing, the sides expand as we go up the neck and I think the hand expects to feel the whole neck get proportionally bigger too. I think a neck would feel funny to us (we would may not necessarily be able to pin point the problem, it just wouldn't feel right (there's that term again!)) if it's width tapered but it's thickness stayed parallel with the fingerboard.
"Jesus Loves You."
Nice to hear in church but not in a Mexican prison.
Nice to hear in church but not in a Mexican prison.
Who is online
Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 33 guests