Neck Timbers

[Ricardo]

I would like to hear some feedback on Neck Timber selection. Mahogany being the traditional for accoustic guitars, Spanish Ceder for Classical.
Is there a reason why Spanish Ceder is not used for Accoustic Guitars?
I know Mahogany is ussed on Classicals

I see that NG rose wood is now being used as is QLD maple and blackwood.
What are the advantage dissadvantages of some of the timbers listed Above. Love to hear some feedback on this.

[Rick Turner]

Martin has made thousands of steel string guitars with Spanish cedar (cedro) necks. It's a bit less dense than mahogany, and it's not quite as stiff. It's a little less civilized in carving...it tears a bit more than mahogany, but it's good stuff, and if you take a bit more care in carving and put in some carbon fiber to stiffen it up, it's great for steel string guitars.

BTW, classical guitars ARE acoustic guitars...

[Localele]

Aust. Red Cedar will be great treated the same way.Nice and light compared with blackwood too.

[Bob Connor]

Queensland Maple has been used for many years by Maton in their steel strings.

Very similar to Mahogany in appearance workability and stability.

[Ricardo]

Rick,My appologies, i have a bad habit of refering to Steel String Guitars as "Accoustic" and classicals as Classical, I guess it come from playing a lot of different styles of guitar. Thanks for your comments

[ozziebluesman]

G'day Ricardo,

At the present I am building a concert guitar, steel string and the neck is Cyprus from Tassie. It is light in weight and nicely figured. I'm going to use two carbon fibre rods for added strength. Time will tell if this wood works as a neck. I know other who have used it with success.

Cheers

Alan

[James Mc]

I haven’t made many guitars but over the years I’ve repaired a good number. One of the very few bits of organisation in my chaos theory life is the journal I keep notes and sketches in of any instrument I repair. So… after a quick flick through it I can tell you that… of the 23 guitars I’ve considered it worth the effort of fixing, 13 had neck breaks 10 of these at the heel join. This had made me a huge fan of laminating necks lengthwise. I think that laminating necks also opens up the range of timbers suitable for necks, for example you could use a timber that would normally be too heavy in combination with one that would be too soft and end up with a nice strong stable neck. The guitar I made for the better half had silky oak laminated to waratah, I don’t think I’d use either of the timbers as a neck by themselves.

Cheers
James

[Tigermyrtle]

Hi Ricardo, As for neck timbers.
I know of luthiers that are using tasmanian blackwood, as well as Myrtle,
Sassafras, Celery top, Eucalyptus, also leatherwood for necks.
I like what James was saying about laminating necks lenthwise this opens up alot more possibilitys of using different species and it looks good.
Cheers Bob.

[sebastiaan56]

I used Tassie Blackwood for one neck and it was a bit heavy IMO. I replaced it with Mahogany and the instrument was bell balanced.

Interesting about Red Cedar Michael, I have a couple of nice pieces hanging around.

[Allen]

I've use Australian Red Cedar, and Cypress on Steel String 000's. Both had 2 carbon fiber rods, plus the double action truss rod. Been going for 3 years now with no issues at all.

Also use Qld Walnut on 2 guitars, but not a huge fan of it, simply because it's so bloody hard on the tools and to work.

[vandenboom]

Currently making steel string with Tassie blackwood - I agree with previous comments about it being on the heavy side.
I have also used Silver Wattle - that was nice. I generally laminate necks.

Frank

[TimS]

Perhaps the issue here is determining what are the necessary features or characteristics for a good neck. When all is done and dusted you are dealing with shaped neck, fretboard, tuners and the counterwieght of the body. So what is a desireable weight? While stability and workability are the provence of the luthier perhaps the weight is predominantly player preference. With that in mind if the body weight is very light you may end up laying a lot of carbon fibre in the neck to achieve strength with little added weight. If you had a Smallman guitar weighing in at 2.5 - 3 kgs neck weight plays a secondary role to stability and playability.

regards

Tim Spittle

[Paul B]

Perhaps the issue here is determining what are the necessary features or characteristics for a good neck. When all is done and dusted you are dealing with shaped neck, fretboard, tuners and the counterwieght of the body. So what is a desireable weight? While stability and workability are the provence of the luthier perhaps the weight is predominantly player preference. With that in mind if the body weight is very light you may end up laying a lot of carbon fibre in the neck to achieve strength with little added weight. If you had a Smallman guitar weighing in at 2.5 - 3 kgs neck weight plays a secondary role to stability and playability.

regards

Tim Spittle

Yeah, but; if you're of the school of thought that builds really light bodies, you're gonna need a light neck timber. damn things are hard enough to play (for me at least) that you don't want the neck diving to the floor every time you relax your grip.

So I think, in my opinion, that it depends on the builder more than the player. for those of the smallman school of thinking you'd be able to use just about anything 'cause the heavy, stiff sides makes a great counter weight.

That said, you can build light but use a chunky tail block that also will act as a counter weight - I've done this and it works nicely.

These days I'm using NGR and it looks good and works just fine - if it's got nice straight grain, cheap as chips too. Gilets use this stuff for necks also.

[Kim]

I used Tassie Blackwood for one neck and it was a bit heavy IMO. I replaced it with Mahogany and the instrument was bell balanced.

I am not doubting you for a second Sebastiaan but it is not very accurate to say that the species 'blackwood' in itself was too heavy and replacing with the species mahogany bought the instrument into balance. Weight depends compete on the particular piece of wood at hand. It would be more accurate to say that the particular piece of blackwood you had used proved too heavy and replacing it with a 'lighter' piece of mahogany you found solved the problem.

I point this out because with my past involvement in stairmaking I have spend days on end facing and edging 300mm x 50mm boards of Jarrah, WA Sheoak and Nyata of varying length across a 15" buzzer by hand and then loading them onto the infeed and off of the outfeed table of a thicknesser by myself. One thing you learn VERY quickly after handling m3 after m3 of the same wood is that some boards of the very same species can vary quite dramatically in weight. So much so that if they where to be painted, you would swear they could not possibly be of the same species.

As an example, I have some blackwood in my shed that is much lighter than a length of hondo hog I have of the same dimensions so at the end of the day we as musical instrument builders should concentrate on the properties most desirable in a neck when selecting timber and these are a hardwood with a good weight to strength, stability and stiffness ratio.

My advice is that if we find a length of 'any' wood that fits this bill, is dimensionally acceptable and matches our aesthetic requirements, then we should use it without hesitation and leave those broadly generalised figures one finds in so many books quoting a set m3 weight ratio to a species, to those industrialist who commissioned their compilation to fulfil their own requirements in dealing with millions of m3 of timber annually.

In our craft, we use so very little wood in ratio to man hours that we can afford, even have a duty, to assess each piece of timber intimately and then judge it upon it's own merit rather than it's species. I have not done too much lut'in, but at the end of the day, I bet my lefty that one's skill in this assessment would play a very big role in any success they may have as a luthier.

Cheers

Kim

[woodrat]

I used Tassie Blackwood for one neck and it was a bit heavy IMO. I replaced it with Mahogany and the instrument was bell balanced.

I am not doubting you for a second Sebastiaan but it is not very accurate to say that the species 'blackwood' in itself was too heavy and replacing with the species mahogany bought the instrument into balance. Weight depends compete on the particular piece of wood at hand. It would be more accurate to say that the particular piece of blackwood you had used proved too heavy and replacing it with a 'lighter' piece of mahogany you found solved the problem.

I point this out because with my past involvement in stairmaking I have spend days on end facing and edging 300mm x 50mm boards of Jarrah, WA Sheoak and Nyata of varying length across a 15" buzzer by hand and then loading them onto the infeed and off of the outfeed table of a thicknesser by myself. One thing you learn VERY quickly after handling m3 after m3 of the same wood is that some boards of the very same species can vary quite dramatically in weight. So much so that if they where to be painted, you would swear they could not possibly be of the same species.

As an example, I have some blackwood in my shed that is much lighter than a length of hondo hog I have of the same dimensions so at the end of the day we as musical instrument builders should concentrate on the properties most desirable in a neck when selecting timber and these are a hardwood with a good weight to strength, stability and stiffness ratio.

My advice is that if we find a length of 'any' wood that fits this bill, is dimensionally acceptable and matches our aesthetic requirements, then we should use it without hesitation and leave those broadly generalised figures one finds in so many books quoting a set m3 weight ratio to a species, to those industrialist who commissioned their compilation to fulfil their own requirements in dealing with millions of m3 of timber annually.

In our craft, we use so very little wood in ratio to man hours that we can afford, even have a duty, to assess each piece of timber intimately and then judge it upon it's own merit rather than it's species. I have not done too much lut'in, but at the end of the day, I bet my lefty that one's skill in this assessment would play a very big role in any success they may have as a luthier.

Cheers

Kim

Very eloquently put, Kim. I have pieces of blackwood from two trees that grew about 3 km apart and they are so completely different in their density. One I would use for a neck and one I would not because it is much heavier.

[ap404]

+1 for Qld Maple and NGRose they have been so reliable for me and are easily avail in quartered or flatsawn planks. The NGRose is my favourite of the two, it is a pleasure to carve or rout and has a little of that Blackwood shimmer when lacquered.


Cheers,
AP

[Paul B]

And, the NGR sometimes has figure - curly or bees wing. At about $9 for one neck blank you can't go wrong.

If you're buying it rough sawn at a lumber yard; the heavier pieces are more likely to have figure and better colour.