Fretting question

[vandenboom]

I am about to fret a neck and am reviewing techniques etc to do it better.
I am reading the stewmac book called "Fret Work Step by Step".
The few fret jobs I have done to date have simply involved a small taste of titebond on the tang.
I was intrigued by a section in the book which discussed the option of filling the whole fret slot with glue (epoxy, hide or titebond) and the possibility of it being good for sound propogation over slots with "air space" in them. I hadn't come across this before.
If time is not an issue (i.e. I'm not trying to make a living out of this), does anyone out there have experience with this or a view on its merit?
Frank

[J.F. Custom]

Hi Frank,

Frets don't need to be glued at all and many makers won't use any. The small amount used by many others is generally to seal the end grain in the slots of the fretboard as the fret is seated. I use this method. This helps in future fret replacement in that it; A - aids removal and B - helps prevent chipping of the slot/surface. To a somewhat lesser extent, it also helps seat and hold the fret in place, should it be problematic. Problems fretting can occur with different species (of fretboard) too. Some timbers are so tough that a narrow slot on larger tang frets can cause the fret to continually want to push back out and not seat effectively. Glue can help in this case, as it can if the fret slot is a little too wide for the fret. In this latter case, it helps the fret to stabilize, not fall out in wear and not buzz from gaps.

So far as the 'sound' aspect is concerned... Well, in theory, a solid material will transfer the sound more effectively than one with air gaps. That said, if anyone could actually hear the difference between a fully glued slot and a drop filled slot, with the multitude of other more relevant and apparent sound effecting aspects of a guitar, they've got better ears than most and certainly than me. I wouldn't get too caught up in some of those details. It is more important to focus on your frets seating properly, without buzz or uneven high spots. If it suits you to do this, go ahead, but not purely for the tone. Just my opinion I guess, perhaps others will enlighten me to something I hadn't considered... or perhaps not.

Cheers,

Jeremy.

[Allen]

For my 2 cents, there are just so many other things to be concerned with in doing a good fret job, than messing with fully glueing them in. Mine either go in dry, or with just a kiss of Titebond on the tang. I prefer to install them dry, but I find some woods like the lubrication of a little glue on the tang to help them fully seat. The especially hard, native woods most often that I find require this.

For what it's worth, I couldn't tell you the difference in tone from one to the other. Maybe too many years of industrial noise has stuffed my hearing too much to discern a difference, but I would like to meet the person who could pick the difference more than 50 % of the time.

[vandenboom]

Thanks gents - I will proceed in the usual way!

[Nick]

I just add some titebond to the tang supposedly as insurance against the fret losening later on. I say supposedly because this was the methodology that I learnt when I was learning fretting so it's just the way I've always done it but obviously not the only way.
Along the same lines as Jeremy,my typically cynical mind makes me wonder though about claims made about the sound transmission properties of frets. When you look at it, the area of a fret that is actually in contact with the rest of the guitar is such an extremely small percentage of the total 'sound generating' areas on a guitar,so I would defy anybody to hear a difference in the guitar's final sound between a glued in fret, dry fret or a fret that has been 'set' in glue. Plus when the guitar is being played the string is being pinched between the finger and fret so the vibration of the string at that point is or should be none but the core will obviously transmit an extremely small percentage of it's vibration down through the fret but just how much of this makes up the final sound, IMO would be tiny. Then you have other variables such as fretboard materials, neck joints e.t.c that can 'shape' a sound. Does an old 'bar' fret sound any different than say a stainless fret in the over all sound?
My ten cents worth (since we don't have any smaller denomination anymore!)

[Hesh1956]

What you can hear that is far more likely is a loose fret.

Some builders use a little glue, HHG, Titebond, even medium or slow CA, to lubricate the fret while being inserted into the slot. In addition to lubrication the glue is cheap insurance against the fret coming loose in time.

When you consider the possibilities for inaccuracies in fret slot width, differences in the tangs of different fret wire, even a less then perfect blow from a fretting hammer, and as mentioned various woods and end grain a little glue is IMHO a good thing.

I have fretted with and without glue but these days the virtues of gluing frets is pretty clear to me.

As for if one can hear any difference between a fret that is glued and one that is not this is a claim that I would not be willing to make - unless I was drunk...

[kiwigeo]

I run some Titebond along tang of my frets for following reasons:

1. lubricates fret slot.
2. water in glue makes slot close up a tad.
3. glue is extra insurance.

[ozziebluesman]

I have read of builders applying one drop of super glue on fret ends to help keep the fret seated. I did this to both my concert ukulele's that have just been finished. Made sense to me!

Cheers

Alan

[Kim]

Some also fret dry, apply tape to the FB at the side of the wire and then wick water thin CA between the wire and the FB slot using a pipette which has a stretched out micro fine tip.

[Taffy Evans]

I do as Martin mentions above, I have a small squeezy bottle with a small nozzle shaped to get a thin bead of glue along the tang. Some of my customers have mentioned that their guitar sounded better after a refret, sustain, but that may be due to h due to a harder fretwire compared to the old