Pre-Bending Herringbone

Allen · Post by **Allen** » Wed May 13, 2009 5:38 pm

I've seen people ask more times than I can count how to get herringbone, or other wide purfling glued in without problems. I'm getting ready to install some, so thought I'd take a picture, as they say a good one is worth a 1000 words. So I'm going to shut up now.

obmit · Post by **obmit** » Sat May 16, 2009 12:19 am

So how did you get it to bend?

Allen · Post by **Allen** » Sat May 16, 2009 6:45 am

Start at lower bout. Place clamp. Move around form, place clamps as you go. No heat. It bends easy, but wants to roll as it bends. I think this is what gives people fits when trying to use Herringbone. By clamping it flat as you go, it takes the bend and holds it shape once you're ready to install.

sebastiaan56 · Post by **sebastiaan56** » Sat May 16, 2009 7:31 am

Allen wrote: It bends easy, but wants to roll as it bends. I think this is what gives people fits when trying to use Herringbone. By clamping it flat as you go, it takes the bend and holds it shape once you're ready to install.

This is where my rosette effed up, any suggestions for tighter, ie rosette, curves?

Allen · Post by **Allen** » Sat May 16, 2009 2:55 pm

I route a template in some MDF and coax the herringbone into it. Place flat weight over it and let sit over night. Pop out the next day and install. You could use a heat source like hair drier to help you out, but I've never found it necessary.

To install, hot hide glue works a treat on herringbone. Warm and slippery seems to really help in getting them to sit in like they're suppose to.

obmit · Post by **obmit** » Sat May 16, 2009 8:24 pm

thanks guys this has been a help have some inlay materials waiting to bend

John Maddison · Post by **John Maddison** » Sat May 16, 2009 9:40 pm

Hi Allen

I route a template in some MDF and coax the herringbone into it.

Can you take an end-view pic of the herringbone binding close-up at this selected part of the mold, just for a closer look?

Cheers

Allen · Post by **Allen** » Sun May 17, 2009 6:01 am

John, there isn't a rebate on this mold, if that is what you are thinking. This is just my template for sizing tops, and backs. It's only some 3 mm press board. The Herringbone is only sitting on the top of it. Held in place with the spring clamps, so that it doesn't roll over as it's bent around the form. Once it sits like that for a few hours, or over night, it keeps its shape no worries at all. I'll take a picture later, as it's still dark out here right now.

The quote you have was for Sebastiaan that had asked about rosettes. That was where I have a piece of MDF with a mock up of the rosette routed out. Just like the top, but less delicate.

John Maddison · Post by **John Maddison** » Sun May 17, 2009 11:44 am

That clarifies things, Allen, tho' a close-up pic would also be good

Allen · Post by **Allen** » Sun May 17, 2009 3:20 pm

As per your request John.

sebastiaan56 · Post by **sebastiaan56** » Mon May 18, 2009 6:05 am

Thanks Allen,

Hesh1956 · Post by **Hesh1956** » Mon May 18, 2009 8:40 am

Nice job Allen!!!

Sebastiaan my friend another way to bend herringbone into tight curves such as a cut-away is to split the herringbone with a razor blade and treat is as two pieces. I learned this from John How when I wrongly told someone on the OLF that I didn't think that one could coax herringbone around a cut-away.

sebastiaan56 · Post by **sebastiaan56** » Tue May 19, 2009 6:11 am

You mean down the middle Hesh?

Hesh1956 · Post by **Hesh1956** » Tue May 19, 2009 9:19 am

sebastiaan56 wrote:You mean down the middle Hesh?

I'm not sure and I was just looking at it and wondering the same thing. It looks like you could slice a side off or split it down the middle. If it is split down the middle the alternating pattern may get out of sync.

John How is a great guy and I am sure he would tell anyone interested in his method how he does it. If anyone wants to contact him let me know and I'll contact him and either ask him if I can pass on his contact info or request that he stop by the ANZLF and enlighten us all.

Nick · Post by **Nick** » Tue May 19, 2009 10:39 am

Hesh1956 wrote: John How is a great guy and I am sure he would tell anyone interested in his method how he does it. If anyone wants to contact him let me know and I'll contact him and either ask him if I can pass on his contact info or request that he stop by the ANZLF and enlighten us all.

I'd be a starter

Ron Wisdom · Post by **Ron Wisdom** » Tue May 19, 2009 12:36 pm

Anyone notice in the StewMac catalog that their pre-bent herringbone is cheaper than the straight pieces.

Ron

sebastiaan56 · Post by **sebastiaan56** » Tue May 19, 2009 1:22 pm

Hesh1956 wrote:I'm not sure and I was just looking at it and wondering the same thing. It looks like you could slice a side off or split it down the middle. If it is split down the middle the alternating pattern may get out of sync.

That was the prompt for my question

John How is a great guy and I am sure he would tell anyone interested in his method how he does it. If anyone wants to contact him let me know and I'll contact him and either ask him if I can pass on his contact info or request that he stop by the ANZLF and enlighten us all.

Consider the request requested......

Kim · Post by **Kim** » Tue May 19, 2009 2:22 pm

Page 46 of Jim William's book 'A guitar Makers Manual' has a diagram showing he splits down the centre. It also has text which suggest:

1 Split in the direction of the pattern.
2 Use a dull knife.
3 Stay on the same side of the centre white stripe.
4 Tape each piece of herringbone to the bending form so that it adapt to its required shape.
5 Do not allow to dry completely before using.

Personally I think Allen's method is simpler. In the past I have used a series of panel pins nailed into some MDF which follow the inside line of the form. The herringbone is soaked a little in warm water and then gently eased into place and set to the pins clamping in between in much the same way Allen has shown.

Cheers

Kim

Allen · Post by **Allen** » Tue May 19, 2009 4:45 pm

I did that the first time I used herringbone Kim, and while it worked, it was a pain in the ass to do, and it still wanted to roll over on the really tight bends. This method takes no more time than putting that many spring clamps around your template. No soaking, no heat, and in shape, clamped flat in around 2 minutes or less.

For a really tight Venetian cutaway, if you use the really fine Herringbone, it would be easier to disguise any out of sync patter, I've tried breaking this stuff down the middle, and it's a no go. It comes from Gurian. Perhaps other makes are easier to get apart.

Mark McLean · Post by **Mark McLean** » Wed May 20, 2009 6:37 am

I recently put this herringbone rosette in my number 2 build. I didn't realize that it might be a problem to bend (ignorance is bliss). I spritzed it with some water and bent it on a slightly warm pipe. It bent perfectly without any rolling and I glued it into the channel right away with no drama. I also had a go at a cocobolo soundhole binding to match the binding on the edges and that worked out pretty well also (one small gap that I will need to fill before finishing). Maybe this was the luck of the beginner.

Allen · Post by **Allen** » Wed May 20, 2009 5:10 pm

Very nice indeed Mark. Skillful execution.

I think ignorance helps me out heaps. If I ever knew how complicated, and difficult some of the aspects of building guitars would be, I'd probably never have started. And don't even get me started on the bottomless pit that swallows any spare $$$$.

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