Picture of the Day

[Hesh1956]

While I was working on this top I thought that it might make a cool picture to share.

Have a GREAT day everyone!!!

[Kim]

Exquisite Hesh but your showing us your bottom again. Love the refinement of the brace and great selection of quality tools.

Cheers

Kim

[Arnt]

While I was working on this top I thought that it might make a cool picture to share.

I didn't know you were into ladder braced tops, Hesh! Nice woods and tools, though...

[Dennis Leahy]

Geez, Hesh! No wonder the Seven Dwarfs don't like you! You don't know your arse from your head! (bottom from your top)

Dennis
p.s. So, what kind of wood is that beautiful "crushed fiddleback" blond? Too dark for Anigre, but it seems a bit too light for Sapele or H. Mahogany...

[Hesh1956]

Thanks guys - it's Honduran Mahogany with a tad of flame to it.

This is an experimental back for me where I am applying some things that I have learned about top bracing to the back. I want the lower bout to flex ever so slightly and act as the other half of a bellows.

Usually I use wide and low braces on the lower bout of the back to help pump the bass out of the box. In this case I am intentionally being blind to the shape of the brace, low and wide, in favor of just going for a desired stiffness with the most efficient shape - taller and thin. And of course the triangle profile does that best of all.

The carved brace is just short of 1/2" high in the center and I can slightly flex the top with a good deal of force. It may still be to stiff but I am waiting until I carve the other lower bout brace to tell.

Of all things guitar building carving braces is my favorite and most enjoyable part. The dog laying in the corner, tunes on the IPod, Valium, what could be better.

[Lillian]

Hesh, do you carve you braces with the plate on your sanding dish? Not having done it, I'm torn between it being a simple way of keeping the plate relatively still and worrying about gouging the back of the plate if it slips or is pressed into the dish too hard.

[Dennis Leahy]

Hesh, do you carve you braces with the plate on your sanding dish? Not having done it, I'm torn between it being a simple way of keeping the plate relatively still and worrying about gouging the back of the plate if it slips or is pressed into the dish too hard.

Lillian, I'm not Hesh, but may I chime in? I found that not only using the dish, but using my go-bar deck worked out very well for brace carving. Just prop a few go-bars (with tiny cauls or rubber tips) somewhere out of the way to hold the back or top plate steady and in it's proper radius while you carve away. I thought it worked great!

I have 2 sets of dishes - one with and one without sandpaper, and used the plain ones for this task. If I had one set of dishes (with sandpaper), I would probably sandwich a sheet of paper, for protection, though I know luthiers that don't bother.

Dennis

[Lillian]

Thanks Dennis.

[Hesh1956]

Thanks Dennis.

If I can add to what Dennis said please. My dishes have 80 grit in them and this helps hold the top/back in place for carving. I still have to use my other hand to hold the plates though.

Another thing that really helps is to have VERY sharp tools. If you have to apply even moderate pressure to a chisel or finger plane they are not adjusted correctly or as dull as I am.....

CAUTION: I always wanted to say "caution" on a forum..... Be SURE to vacuum your dishes after things like using a glue clearing chisel. HHG boogers are particularly well suited to get on your dish, dry hard as a rock, and then when you set a plate on for carving or bracing denting your tops and some backs.

We must work clean.....

[Dennis Leahy]

The go-bar rods held this back tightly to the dish, so I could use all three hands for carving.

Dennis

[Hesh1956]

Dennis your bracing looks VERY cool and I have never seen anything like it prior. I know that you were doing some experimental things and would love if you would expand please on what we are seeing here?

Also, I would be very concerned having my third hand near a sharp chisel

[Lillian]

"... so I could use all three hands for carving."



Some how I get the feeling I don't want to know.

[Hesh1956]

Lillian sorry we probably should not have gone there.........

[Dennis Leahy]

Thanks Hesh. I didn't know if I should post that into your thread or not. Well, now I've done it.

After deciding on a radial strategy for the soundboard, I looked at some X-braced back patterns to continue the radial concept. But, as noted, the X-braced backs didn't really look radial, so I started from scratch. I wanted the back to pump, thinking of a piston - that's honestly about as deep as my thought process went, as far as I remember. (I could look it up; I documented the whole project.)

There's one unbroken brace: the transverse/lateral brace. My intent was to hold the arch with that.

There are 4 radial braces, symmetrical bi-laterally, all pointing to the furthest point in their respective bouts.

There are 2 pseudo-braces running longitudinally that are really just a variation on a typical back joint reinforcement, other than their connection to the hub.

There is a Katalox oval cap at the hub that ties all the braces together. The idea was to tie all the braces together to act as a piston, and the cap also is supposed to hold the hub end of the radial braces, to help hold the longitudinal arch. I wanted a radial rather than cylindrical back.

Once I was "done", it all seemed too stiff as an assembly, so (again thinking piston) I scibed concentric circles from the hub out to the braces. and scalloped the braces to free them up.

The back braces are made from some wimpy Phillipine Mahogany, to keep them light and build in flexibility.

The result? I suspect this back falls somewhere in the middle of the extremes of stiff for projection and loose for local resonance. When I play, I do feel vibrations against my body, but it is not as loose as I had guessed it would be. (And I don't really know if that helped or hindered the overall timbre or sustain.) Since this guitar was like 10 experiments rolled into one, I don't really know what subtle effect it will have on my next one, but I am going to brace the next back a bit more lightly, striving for more local resonance.

Dennis

[Lillian]

No harm, no foul.

[Dennis Leahy]

"... so I could use all three hands for carving."



Some how I get the feeling I don't want to know.

Lilian, Hesh mentioned carving with one hand, while holding the top steady with the other. By using the go-bars, it freed-up my other hand. The third hand was a metaphor for "I am a beginner, and I couldn't possibly carve with one hand and hold the back with the other." Your mind is in the gutter. You are a very nasty girl. That can be an asset. I am going to watch you very carefully, with my third eye.

Dennis

[Kim]

I am going to watch you very carefully, with my third eye. Dennis

Hmmm

[Lillian]

Your mind is in the gutter. You are a very nasty girl. That can be an asset.

Dennis

That's why my wife married me.

[Dennis Leahy]

Your mind is in the gutter. You are a very nasty girl. That can be an asset.

Dennis

That's why my wife married me.

Your wife is as wise as you are nasty.

Dennis

[Hesh1956]

I'm staying out of this one and Dennis I will respond about your very cool bracing later when I can stop laughing......

BTW when I post anything what I am really doing is encouraging everyone to post, comment, put up pics and show us your stuff, etc. So please everyone never feel like a thread that I start is in some way "my" thread. We are here to share.

[Dennis Leahy]

I didn't mean to be a turd in the punchbowl by showing those photos of my kooky back bracing. My original intent was to show some brace carving, in progress, with the plate held onto the radius dish within a go-bar deck. I thought if I just wrote text, the mental image would be of a space too tightly cramped to carve braces, but in truth, there was plenty of room to work.

Now that second photo, well, that was egotistical.

When experimental or crazy ideas show up on these forums, some people don't know what to say. My skin is thick enough to accept criticism for aesthetics that clash with your own or engineering concepts that you disagree with. I have only built one guitar, but if I post pictures of various parts of that one experimental guitar in various threads "show us your headstock", "show us your bracing", etc, you'll see almost nothing traditional, standard, typical, or Martin-esque. I know my stuff is weird. Please feel free to make comments or ignore me as you see fit, but please don't stop posting in a thread where some of my weird stuff shows up, or I'll feel, well, weird.

Thanks,

Dennis

[Hesh1956]

Dennis when I read turd in the punch bowel I spit out my drink.....

And no, no, no showing pics of your very fine work is NOT egotistical at all - it's sharing and pride - all good things.

I want to hear about the mechanics of how your bracing complete with piston works. I have some idea from looking at it and I think that you may have a very cool idea here. Mass and weight is not always an enemy it just is not great with conventional designs. But if you have something here that uses the mass and weight to your advantage all the better.

People think that I am one to say obligatory and condescendingly nice things. Although I will do that, guilty as charged, I also will challenge an idea that makes no sense to me. And as some of you know I don't care who's idea it might be or who the hell they perceive themselves to be in the guitar building world.........

We are a young forum and right not, in my opinion but I am not our leader Bob is, high jacking threads is cool in any of the threads that I start if it promotes sharing, interest, laughs, and knowledge.

[BillyT]

high jacking threads is cool in any of the threads that I start if it promotes sharing, interest, laughs, and knowledge.

What about irritation??

[Serge]

Hey bro, lovely pic that could make it on the Lee Valley tools catalog front page man, just awesome, i'm buyin'! looks great!

Dennis, great tip about the gobar deck bud, i should have thought of that, duh! Thanks bro!

[Hesh1956]

high jacking threads is cool in any of the threads that I start if it promotes sharing, interest, laughs, and knowledge.

What about irritation??

Billy have you tried Monkey Butt powder????? Waddy sent me some for my birthday.....