Ok Im currently setting up bridge position on the 12 string and need to consider compensation for each string. The saddle will be 5mm wide to give me a bit of leeway with fine tuning compensation and the saddle slot will be routed after bridge is glued on.
Will cutting a slot that allows for 6mm of compensation for bottom E and 2mm for top E also allow for correct compensation of the lighter guage pairs?
Any comments would be appreciated. A split saddle is an option.
Cheers Martin
12 string compensation
Hi Martin,
I have a mid 70's Guild 12 that I set up some time ago with individual string compensation on the standard saddle which is about 2.5mm wide.
Just checked it now and it is still pretty good except that it is playing just stightly sharp due to needing a neck reset.
IMHO a 5mm saddle is unnecessary and will look bulky, you would be fine with a 1/8" but what you want to do is reduce the angle on the saddle so that the high E's end up near the front of the saddle and the big E ends up with its break point near the rear of the saddle.
This will give you plenty of range to inotate the octaves
I have a mid 70's Guild 12 that I set up some time ago with individual string compensation on the standard saddle which is about 2.5mm wide.
Just checked it now and it is still pretty good except that it is playing just stightly sharp due to needing a neck reset.
IMHO a 5mm saddle is unnecessary and will look bulky, you would be fine with a 1/8" but what you want to do is reduce the angle on the saddle so that the high E's end up near the front of the saddle and the big E ends up with its break point near the rear of the saddle.
This will give you plenty of range to inotate the octaves
G'day Martin,
You'll need the full five mm of saddle if you want correct intonation on all strings . Make your saddle angle 3 degree . This will allow the thick E to be correct ( hopefully with a little rear ramp on the saddle ), as well as have the octave 'G' string ( the tricky one ) intonate well.It's leaving point will end up at the very front of the saddle. Calculate the saddle positioning as you would for a 6 string leaving the extra 2 mm. of saddle in front of that position for the high octave strings.
I gave this operation a whole lot of thought and calculation before tackling mine including other formulas with a different angle.
Here's a pic ., although not as detailed as I would like.
Ensure each string has a clean and decisive leaving point without being obstucted by any part of the saddle ramped for the octave strings.
Just found this pic which may be of better help
Good luck with it Martin . Give us a yell if you need to .
Cheers mate
You'll need the full five mm of saddle if you want correct intonation on all strings . Make your saddle angle 3 degree . This will allow the thick E to be correct ( hopefully with a little rear ramp on the saddle ), as well as have the octave 'G' string ( the tricky one ) intonate well.It's leaving point will end up at the very front of the saddle. Calculate the saddle positioning as you would for a 6 string leaving the extra 2 mm. of saddle in front of that position for the high octave strings.
I gave this operation a whole lot of thought and calculation before tackling mine including other formulas with a different angle.
Here's a pic ., although not as detailed as I would like.
Ensure each string has a clean and decisive leaving point without being obstucted by any part of the saddle ramped for the octave strings.
Just found this pic which may be of better help
Good luck with it Martin . Give us a yell if you need to .
Cheers mate
Craig Lawrence
Great response to my query Craig. Answered my questions.
Just one more request...could you possibly provide me with with your theoretical scale length (2 x nut to 12th fret distance will do) and actual scale length from nut to break point for each string on the saddle. A big ask I know but it would help immensely in positioning of my bridge.
And Id also love to know how you did those lovely inlays on the wings of your bridge.
Cheers and thanks Martin
Just one more request...could you possibly provide me with with your theoretical scale length (2 x nut to 12th fret distance will do) and actual scale length from nut to break point for each string on the saddle. A big ask I know but it would help immensely in positioning of my bridge.
And Id also love to know how you did those lovely inlays on the wings of your bridge.
Cheers and thanks Martin
G'day Martin,
I'm sorry mate ,but I can't give you those exact measurements as I built mine with a 24.9" scale , and from memory yours is a 25. 4" scale. On top of that , I compensate the nut a little forward
I used the shorter scale for a couple of reasons. Less strain on the whole guitar and also the frets are slightly closer together . I believe you need all the help you can muster with the wider twelve string neck and all their strings .
Here are some instructions that may help out though Martin.
Treat the saddle as you would if you were placing a 3mm.wide six string saddle. This 3 mm. you measure from the back of your wider 5 mm saddle. The extra 2 mm. at the front of the saddle will be used for the high octave strings , but ignore that for the moment.
For this ,I add .137 " to the theoretical scale at the middle of the ( 3 mm. )saddle. This will give you the spot where your saddle should live , just as you would do with a six string.
Once you have your bridge and saddle installed on the guitar, radius the top of the saddle to match your fingerboard radius ,but have the treble side sit 1/16 "lower . I make my bridges 1/16 " thinner on the treble side so that I have an even amout of saddle showing above the bridge.
Now string up the guitar , and use a bent piece of wire between the saddle and the string to ascertain where te string's leaving point should be on the saddle by moving the wire front to rear of the saddle so that you find the correct intonation.Mark these spots and file the saddle ridges to suit . The top of you previously radiused saddle will be the high point of these ridges . Watch you don't file these ridges to be lower !
If you later find your string action to be too high , take an even amount off the BOTTOM of your saddle .
You'll find your saddle marks pattern will look something like this :
As I mentioned before , I use a 3 degree angle for the saddle ( Martin style ) . If I were to use a 4 degree angle ( Gibson style ) you can see that the " B" strings would be sitting on a sharp ridge at the very rear of the saddle. As these are unwound strings they are inclined to "cut in " to the ridge and thereby lower their hieght over the fretboard,,,, not good !
The 3 degree method allows for the " B " strings to have a small rear ramp on the saddle to curb this " cutting in " .
I make the angle of the ramps leading up to the saddle ridges a little less than the breakpoint angle to the bridge pins . This has the strings resting on the rear ramps of the saddle before the apex of the leaving point , thereby minimising the " cutting in " I mentioned earlier .
I believe it may also serve to give "more information " to the bridge itself , rather than have the string sitting on a knife edge . Somogyi mentions this also .
Hope you make some sense of all this mate . Sing out if you need to !
Cheers
I'm sorry mate ,but I can't give you those exact measurements as I built mine with a 24.9" scale , and from memory yours is a 25. 4" scale. On top of that , I compensate the nut a little forward
I used the shorter scale for a couple of reasons. Less strain on the whole guitar and also the frets are slightly closer together . I believe you need all the help you can muster with the wider twelve string neck and all their strings .
Here are some instructions that may help out though Martin.
Treat the saddle as you would if you were placing a 3mm.wide six string saddle. This 3 mm. you measure from the back of your wider 5 mm saddle. The extra 2 mm. at the front of the saddle will be used for the high octave strings , but ignore that for the moment.
For this ,I add .137 " to the theoretical scale at the middle of the ( 3 mm. )saddle. This will give you the spot where your saddle should live , just as you would do with a six string.
Once you have your bridge and saddle installed on the guitar, radius the top of the saddle to match your fingerboard radius ,but have the treble side sit 1/16 "lower . I make my bridges 1/16 " thinner on the treble side so that I have an even amout of saddle showing above the bridge.
Now string up the guitar , and use a bent piece of wire between the saddle and the string to ascertain where te string's leaving point should be on the saddle by moving the wire front to rear of the saddle so that you find the correct intonation.Mark these spots and file the saddle ridges to suit . The top of you previously radiused saddle will be the high point of these ridges . Watch you don't file these ridges to be lower !
If you later find your string action to be too high , take an even amount off the BOTTOM of your saddle .
You'll find your saddle marks pattern will look something like this :
As I mentioned before , I use a 3 degree angle for the saddle ( Martin style ) . If I were to use a 4 degree angle ( Gibson style ) you can see that the " B" strings would be sitting on a sharp ridge at the very rear of the saddle. As these are unwound strings they are inclined to "cut in " to the ridge and thereby lower their hieght over the fretboard,,,, not good !
The 3 degree method allows for the " B " strings to have a small rear ramp on the saddle to curb this " cutting in " .
I make the angle of the ramps leading up to the saddle ridges a little less than the breakpoint angle to the bridge pins . This has the strings resting on the rear ramps of the saddle before the apex of the leaving point , thereby minimising the " cutting in " I mentioned earlier .
I believe it may also serve to give "more information " to the bridge itself , rather than have the string sitting on a knife edge . Somogyi mentions this also .
Hope you make some sense of all this mate . Sing out if you need to !
Cheers
Craig Lawrence
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