I have almost finished my lightbulb heated Fox-type Bender. I am committed to building one or two guitars, but whether I will be bitten by the "luthier bug" remains to be seen. I do not want to buy everything I might need, such as a heating blanket, if I am only going to build one or two instruments. By the way, I have two bending pipes made so they might come in handy for smoothing the sides, etc.
I have followed the available plans for the body of the bender. It looks fine to me, but I am uncertain about a few points.
1. I do not understand how the light bulbs can sufficiently heat the entire length of a side if the side is flat and the mold surface of the bender is inches away from the side to be bent (at the waist and ends). I know I must be missing something in the procedure, and with your help I may soon know the technique.
2. Would someone tell me the proper order of metal sheet and wood? Does the wood touch the pipes, then the sheet stainless next? OR, is there a stainless sheet next to the pipes, then the wood, then another stainless sheet? Do you join the ends of the two stainless sheets at one end, then sandwich the wood in between?
3. I cannot find a tutorial or procedural list to work off of for a lightbulb bender. Can someone give me the steps in using a lightbulb bender? I have read all I can on using a Fox-type bender with a blanket, but methinks a lightbulb bender is different. Also, any pitfalls to avoid would be useful.
4. I have read that three 150 watt bulbs are sufficient. Correct? Also, I have sheet titanium left over from jewelry making that is about .020" thick and seems like it would be perfect. Any perceived downside to this?
I have spent lots of time in searching on the net for the information I need. Only after exausting all the informational sources I can find am I taking my search for information to the ANZLF Forum. Thanks in advance, Michael Pollard
Lightbulb Fox-type Bender, setup and use
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cactus bum
- Myrtle
- Posts: 72
- Joined: Tue Jun 10, 2008 3:19 am
- Location: Arizona
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graham mcdonald
- Blackwood
- Posts: 472
- Joined: Thu Oct 25, 2007 11:57 am
- Location: Canberra
- Contact:
Michael,
The bulbs don't heat the entire length before they are bent, but it doesn't really matter. The wet wood should be sandwiched between the two steel slats. A spring clip at each end is useful to keep everything straight.
Three 150w bulbs put out a fair bit of heat when it is confined to the inside of the bender, but the initial bending of the waist should be done slowly and gradually until the waist is firmly down onto the form. The ends can then be pulled into shape and the whole thing left for 15-20 minutes before turning off the light bulbs. Don't know about titanium, but I used thin aluminium and then just straightened it out again. .010" stainless steel is usually reccomended.
I haven't used the bulbs for years, just a heating blanket where things happen rather more quickly. A hot pipe is still very useful for final adjustments, and even without a bender a set of guitar sides can be done fairly quickly and a pipe is fun with the right wood. At the same time, not-quite-perfect wood can be a right pain in the bum on a hot pipe
cheers
graham
The bulbs don't heat the entire length before they are bent, but it doesn't really matter. The wet wood should be sandwiched between the two steel slats. A spring clip at each end is useful to keep everything straight.
Three 150w bulbs put out a fair bit of heat when it is confined to the inside of the bender, but the initial bending of the waist should be done slowly and gradually until the waist is firmly down onto the form. The ends can then be pulled into shape and the whole thing left for 15-20 minutes before turning off the light bulbs. Don't know about titanium, but I used thin aluminium and then just straightened it out again. .010" stainless steel is usually reccomended.
I haven't used the bulbs for years, just a heating blanket where things happen rather more quickly. A hot pipe is still very useful for final adjustments, and even without a bender a set of guitar sides can be done fairly quickly and a pipe is fun with the right wood. At the same time, not-quite-perfect wood can be a right pain in the bum on a hot pipe
cheers
graham
Graham McDonald
http://www.mcdonaldstrings.com
http://www.mcdonaldstrings.com
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sebastiaan56
- Blackwood
- Posts: 1279
- Joined: Sun Oct 28, 2007 5:23 am
- Location: Blue Mountains
Howdy Bum and welcome to the forum,
The only URL of use I found when working this stuff out was this one http://www.lint.org/TechNotes/lowcostbender.html
Then I went a bought this http://luthierssupplies.com.au/index.php?cPath=162_334 as I couldnt bear cluttering up the house with forms as I experimented, which is mainly what I do.
Good luck,
Sebastiaan
The only URL of use I found when working this stuff out was this one http://www.lint.org/TechNotes/lowcostbender.html
Then I went a bought this http://luthierssupplies.com.au/index.php?cPath=162_334 as I couldnt bear cluttering up the house with forms as I experimented, which is mainly what I do.
Good luck,
Sebastiaan
make mine fifths........
Re: Lightbulb Fox-type Bender, setup and use
Hi Michael and welcome to the ANZLF!!!!
In my opinion light bulbs don't work nearly as well as a heating blanket. I know that you want to keep your costs down but consider the price of the sides of your second guitar when they might crack as a result of using light bulbs......
There are lots of different ways to do the stack but if using two slats and bulbs wrap the wood in very slightly damp craft paper, I spritz the wood and wrap it up and this gets the paper wet. The wood of course is placed between the two slats.
LMI offers, or at least did offer I have not checked lately, a VHS video (remember those.....) showing the use of their Fox style benders with light bulbs. As expected it show the builder struggling through the bend taking over 30 minutes to bend a side that we blanket users can bend in 5 minutes.
With a blanket from the bottom up I do this:
1) Stainless slat
2) damp (very slightly) wood wrapped in craft paper
3) Stainless slat
4) Blanket
5) Spring steel slat (yes I use 3 slats)
Again welcome.
In my opinion light bulbs don't work nearly as well as a heating blanket. I know that you want to keep your costs down but consider the price of the sides of your second guitar when they might crack as a result of using light bulbs......
There are lots of different ways to do the stack but if using two slats and bulbs wrap the wood in very slightly damp craft paper, I spritz the wood and wrap it up and this gets the paper wet. The wood of course is placed between the two slats.
LMI offers, or at least did offer I have not checked lately, a VHS video (remember those.....) showing the use of their Fox style benders with light bulbs. As expected it show the builder struggling through the bend taking over 30 minutes to bend a side that we blanket users can bend in 5 minutes.
With a blanket from the bottom up I do this:
1) Stainless slat
2) damp (very slightly) wood wrapped in craft paper
3) Stainless slat
4) Blanket
5) Spring steel slat (yes I use 3 slats)
Again welcome.
cactus bum wrote:I have almost finished my lightbulb heated Fox-type Bender. I am committed to building one or two guitars, but whether I will be bitten by the "luthier bug" remains to be seen. I do not want to buy everything I might need, such as a heating blanket, if I am only going to build one or two instruments. By the way, I have two bending pipes made so they might come in handy for smoothing the sides, etc.
I have followed the available plans for the body of the bender. It looks fine to me, but I am uncertain about a few points.
1. I do not understand how the light bulbs can sufficiently heat the entire length of a side if the side is flat and the mold surface of the bender is inches away from the side to be bent (at the waist and ends). I know I must be missing something in the procedure, and with your help I may soon know the technique.
2. Would someone tell me the proper order of metal sheet and wood? Does the wood touch the pipes, then the sheet stainless next? OR, is there a stainless sheet next to the pipes, then the wood, then another stainless sheet? Do you join the ends of the two stainless sheets at one end, then sandwich the wood in between?
3. I cannot find a tutorial or procedural list to work off of for a lightbulb bender. Can someone give me the steps in using a lightbulb bender? I have read all I can on using a Fox-type bender with a blanket, but methinks a lightbulb bender is different. Also, any pitfalls to avoid would be useful.
4. I have read that three 150 watt bulbs are sufficient. Correct? Also, I have sheet titanium left over from jewelry making that is about .020" thick and seems like it would be perfect. Any perceived downside to this?
I have spent lots of time in searching on the net for the information I need. Only after exausting all the informational sources I can find am I taking my search for information to the ANZLF Forum. Thanks in advance, Michael Pollard
-
Nick Payne
- Myrtle
- Posts: 87
- Joined: Tue Jun 10, 2008 9:31 am
- Location: Canberra
Probably going that way in the US of A too. The curly bulbs don't put out much heat do they? Just don't drop one and break it. You have to evacuate the room, and clean up with a haz-mat suit on.
Waddy
Build Albums 12 done - 1 in process
Clip for #1 Barrios' "Una Limosna por el Amor de Dios" - Not me playing
Build Albums 12 done - 1 in process
Clip for #1 Barrios' "Una Limosna por el Amor de Dios" - Not me playing
G'day Micheal;
With my lightbulb bender, I went overboard on inserting steel pipe all around the perimeter of the form to act as a heat sink. Probably twice as many as any forms that I had seen. Then a steel slat fastened over the form. I switched on the bulbs and let everything heat up for about 20 minutes before even thinking about laying the steel slat and wood sandwich over the form.
After 20 minutes it was zinging hot and I bent some Tassy Blackwood in about 10 minutes to a 000 shape. It worked a treat. I think that he heat sink is really important to a light bulb bender. It helps to even out any hot spots, and keeps the temperature fairly constant.
With my lightbulb bender, I went overboard on inserting steel pipe all around the perimeter of the form to act as a heat sink. Probably twice as many as any forms that I had seen. Then a steel slat fastened over the form. I switched on the bulbs and let everything heat up for about 20 minutes before even thinking about laying the steel slat and wood sandwich over the form.
After 20 minutes it was zinging hot and I bent some Tassy Blackwood in about 10 minutes to a 000 shape. It worked a treat. I think that he heat sink is really important to a light bulb bender. It helps to even out any hot spots, and keeps the temperature fairly constant.
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cactus bum
- Myrtle
- Posts: 72
- Joined: Tue Jun 10, 2008 3:19 am
- Location: Arizona
Howdy Graham, Hesh, and Allen. Thanks for your responses on using a bender. I think I will try to bend some lesser wood first to see if the lightbulb method of heating is for me. If it is not what I want I will buy a heat blanket. Your help in approaching it correctly will make heaps of difference. I will tell you what transpires.
Sebastian, Thanks for the info. I did have the North Texas thread on the lightbulb bender. I did a pm to the author and haven't heard back yet. Maybe it didn't work out for him after all. Maybe too much of a pain in the butt, as Hesh pointed out.
Kiwigeo, I always appreciate a word on safety. Yes, I do have all ceramic bulb bases.
Nick and WaddyT, I will have to take my business elsewhere if Oz is unwilling to supply my lightbulb habit. But, as long as they still sell(export) their fine red wines then all is forgiven.
Seems like I really don't yet have very much to contribute to this forum, but it has helped me quite a lot, both with its archives and the great responses from members. I am awestruck by the differences in my life a computer plus internet makes. Seems to me history will look upon the computer plus internet as equal to the invention of the internal combustion engine, vaccines, flight, etc. Thanks again for communicating with me from the ends of the earth. Michael Pollard
Sebastian, Thanks for the info. I did have the North Texas thread on the lightbulb bender. I did a pm to the author and haven't heard back yet. Maybe it didn't work out for him after all. Maybe too much of a pain in the butt, as Hesh pointed out.
Kiwigeo, I always appreciate a word on safety. Yes, I do have all ceramic bulb bases.
Nick and WaddyT, I will have to take my business elsewhere if Oz is unwilling to supply my lightbulb habit. But, as long as they still sell(export) their fine red wines then all is forgiven.
Seems like I really don't yet have very much to contribute to this forum, but it has helped me quite a lot, both with its archives and the great responses from members. I am awestruck by the differences in my life a computer plus internet makes. Seems to me history will look upon the computer plus internet as equal to the invention of the internal combustion engine, vaccines, flight, etc. Thanks again for communicating with me from the ends of the earth. Michael Pollard
Michael,cactus bum wrote: Seems like I really don't yet have very much to contribute to this forum, but it has helped me quite a lot, both with its archives and the great responses from members. I am awestruck by the differences in my life a computer plus internet makes. Seems to me history will look upon the computer plus internet as equal to the invention of the internal combustion engine, vaccines, flight, etc. Thanks again for communicating with me from the ends of the earth. Michael Pollard
You could not be more off the mark regarding you contribution if you tried.
Just think about it for a moment, if we did not ask the most simple questions in an open forum because we all felt others may judge us as un-knowledgeable then what would there be to debate? How would we exchange the ideas we each come up with that will help us all develop in this craft as a group?
What I am suggesting here is that we all need to start somewhere. People who are just starting out should read what they can in forum archives and books, they should seek out any information that will teach them the language of the craft. But once they understand the language enough to pose the questions and consider the answers, they should ask what they do not understand. I say this because it is in effort to answer these basic questions that the rest of us are forced to look more critically at our own process. More to the point, it is in the act of openly revealing our own thoughts and processes that we offer them up to scrutiny by our peers, who in my own instance, are generally much more skilled than I.
This is really important stuff because it is through this exchange that we all learn. Indeed it is this compounding of ideas which forms the basic function of an internet forum. I can't count the number of times when I have seen the situation arise whereby through the posting of a simple question by someone new to the craft, the entire membership of that forum has ended up sharing in one of those golden Ah-ha! moment.
So Michael your wrong mate, you contributions are the life blood of any good forum.
Cheers
Kim
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cactus bum
- Myrtle
- Posts: 72
- Joined: Tue Jun 10, 2008 3:19 am
- Location: Arizona
Cheers all , You are invited to my place this Sunday at 2:00 here in Tucson. I will have some huge prawns for the barbie and a couple of gallons of beer from the local micro-brew pub. RSVP and I will give you the address. No need to bring a thing. We can kick around this stringed instrument topic a bit, maybe play a few songs.
I love the smell of fresh sawdust in the morning. Michael
I love the smell of fresh sawdust in the morning. Michael
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sebastiaan56
- Blackwood
- Posts: 1279
- Joined: Sun Oct 28, 2007 5:23 am
- Location: Blue Mountains
Well said Kim!Kim wrote:Michael,cactus bum wrote: Seems like I really don't yet have very much to contribute to this forum, but it has helped me quite a lot, both with its archives and the great responses from members. I am awestruck by the differences in my life a computer plus internet makes. Seems to me history will look upon the computer plus internet as equal to the invention of the internal combustion engine, vaccines, flight, etc. Thanks again for communicating with me from the ends of the earth. Michael Pollard
You could not be more off the mark regarding you contribution if you tried.
Just think about it for a moment, if we did not ask the most simple questions in an open forum because we all felt others may judge us as un-knowledgeable then what would there be to debate? How would we exchange the ideas we each come up with that will help us all develop in this craft as a group?
What I am suggesting here is that we all need to start somewhere. People who are just starting out should read what they can in forum archives and books, they should seek out any information that will teach them the language of the craft. But once they understand the language enough to pose the questions and consider the answers, they should ask what they do not understand. I say this because it is in effort to answer these basic questions that the rest of us are forced to look more critically at our own process. More to the point, it is in the act of openly revealing our own thoughts and processes that we offer them up to scrutiny by our peers, who in my own instance, are generally much more skilled than I.
This is really important stuff because it is through this exchange that we all learn. Indeed it is this compounding of ideas which forms the basic function of an internet forum. I can't count the number of times when I have seen the situation arise whereby through the posting of a simple question by someone new to the craft, the entire membership of that forum has ended up sharing in one of those golden Ah-ha! moment.
So Michael your wrong mate, you contributions are the life blood of any good forum.
Cheers
Kim
make mine fifths........
-
matthew
- Blackwood
- Posts: 1190
- Joined: Mon Oct 08, 2007 1:16 pm
- Location: Sydney, Inner West
- Contact:
After struggling with lightbulbs and clothes-irons and heating wands and blowtorches and wasting hours with half-baked bends, I bought a heat blanket and it was worth every cent. So easy it feels like cheating. And I am bending wood up to 3mm thick.
I also use an electric hotplate heated steel bending form for linings and touch-ups. Just so I'm not cheating all the time.
Buy a heat blanket and save the curses for something worthwhile!
I also use an electric hotplate heated steel bending form for linings and touch-ups. Just so I'm not cheating all the time.
Buy a heat blanket and save the curses for something worthwhile!
G'day Matthew.
Interesting hearing your methods and as I'm a solid/chambered builder
, I'd like to push for more info as I run the risk of looking completely stupid in asking questions that I'm sure everyone on this forum knows as gospel. (pity the poor solid body builder
).
My aim is to get into the acoustic side of things (cheers Tim) and would
like to know the big difference between using your typical fox style bender and hot pipe as opposed to heat blankets.
The heat blanket method I'm not that educated on....................yet
cheers, Stu
Interesting hearing your methods and as I'm a solid/chambered builder
, I'd like to push for more info as I run the risk of looking completely stupid in asking questions that I'm sure everyone on this forum knows as gospel. (pity the poor solid body builder
).My aim is to get into the acoustic side of things (cheers Tim) and would
like to know the big difference between using your typical fox style bender and hot pipe as opposed to heat blankets.
The heat blanket method I'm not that educated on....................yet
cheers, Stu
-
matthew
- Blackwood
- Posts: 1190
- Joined: Mon Oct 08, 2007 1:16 pm
- Location: Sydney, Inner West
- Contact:
Pretty easy really.
Instead of heating the wood with lightbulbs (too diffuse) or a hot pipe (point contact only) you use the heat blanket, which is a heating element embedded in to flexible silicone about 1.5mm thick to heat the whole piece of wood at once through contact.
It makes a lot of sense to me. On a pipe you bend a few mm at a time, then move along a bit, then bend more, then move along a bit etc. You can get good at it, but you can easily break a piece if you're in too much haste.
With the heat blanket, you just make a sandwich with thin metal sheets, some paper or foil to protect the damp wood, your heat blanket and some more metal. heat the bugger up and when it sizzles just bend it onto a mould and hold it there while the thing cools down.
You use the fox bender with the heat blanket. no brainer.
Instead of heating the wood with lightbulbs (too diffuse) or a hot pipe (point contact only) you use the heat blanket, which is a heating element embedded in to flexible silicone about 1.5mm thick to heat the whole piece of wood at once through contact.
It makes a lot of sense to me. On a pipe you bend a few mm at a time, then move along a bit, then bend more, then move along a bit etc. You can get good at it, but you can easily break a piece if you're in too much haste.
With the heat blanket, you just make a sandwich with thin metal sheets, some paper or foil to protect the damp wood, your heat blanket and some more metal. heat the bugger up and when it sizzles just bend it onto a mould and hold it there while the thing cools down.
You use the fox bender with the heat blanket. no brainer.
Interesting............ I like the sound of it (sssssssssizzle) Ta Matthew.
I'm currently using a hot -pipe with spring steel sheets and in the process of putting together a fox-bender soon.
So what does everyone else use ?
Is a heat blanket a major part of the arsenal when geared up with a fox and/or hot-pipe ?
G'day and welcome Michael. And if you think you've got nothing to contribute then I think you've already been beaten in that contest.
As I'm an electric builder in an acoustic building forum and feeling mightily inferior, it makes me feel like my testicles have shrunk back into my stomach and I've lost the power to grunt !!!! Yeeowwwww
cheers, Stu
I'm currently using a hot -pipe with spring steel sheets and in the process of putting together a fox-bender soon.
So what does everyone else use ?
Is a heat blanket a major part of the arsenal when geared up with a fox and/or hot-pipe ?
G'day and welcome Michael. And if you think you've got nothing to contribute then I think you've already been beaten in that contest.
As I'm an electric builder in an acoustic building forum and feeling mightily inferior, it makes me feel like my testicles have shrunk back into my stomach and I've lost the power to grunt !!!! Yeeowwwww
cheers, Stu
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