Falcate braced classical

[kiwigeo]

Have been busy in the workshop over the last few days getting my head around falcate bracing. After spome major disasters trying to bend and laminate up the braces using sitka spruce I was close to giving up. As luck would have it a large hunk of king billy pine turned up and after three attempts I managed to churn out some half decent braces. After a few test runs on a scrap of spruce I got going bracing up a classical Im building for a mates daughter. Construction is Spanish Method. Top is Engleman and neck is Queensland Maple. Back and sides will be Tasmanian Blackwood. I hum and harred over the bridge patch but the tradionalist in me won over and I stuck one on. With the patch on Im wondering if the short tertiary braces are of much use. Another concern was whether or not the doming around the bridge/lower bout would be maintained without shaping the braces. Ater gluing in the primary braces I was pleasantly surprised to find that the top was holding its doming nicely. Photos here are of the braces and CF tow going on.

[Tod Gilding]

That's looking good Martin, did you practice with the CF Tow ? looks very tidy for a first attempt, I hope mine ends up that good That Sitka spruce can be strange wood, my primary braces (Sitka ) bent cold with the nails in the board type jig.

[J.F. Custom]

See what you've started Trev ??!

Nice work Martin.

Jeremy.

[kiwigeo]

Yeah I did a couple of test glue ups with laminated braces and CF tow. The tow can be a pain in the arse as it will "float" if you have too much resin on the soundboard before applying the tow. The tricky part was running the tow over the bridge patch.....I should have tried pre-bending the tow at the point where it goes up over the patch and then started laying down the tow from each side of the patch out to the ends of the braces. I managed to bend up some passable primary braces sitka by cold bending but three attempts to heat bend some secondary braces was a total failure. The king billy really is lovely stuff to bend and you cant beat the colour of those braces!

[kiwigeo]

See what you've started Trev ??!

Nice work Martin.

Jeremy.

Learning as I go Jeremy....am on a very steep learning curve on this instrument.

[christian]

Who woke up the beast ? two guitars in as many weeks Martin !!!!
so far so good looks great mate !!! look forward to seeing it coming together.

Cheers,
Christian.

[Dominic]

Hey Martin, nice work, only a couple of falcate classicals so far on here, Jeff was/did make one as well i think.
(how is/did that one go Jeff?)

But I am keen to get an idea of where your top comes out with whatever brace height and plate thickness combinations you end up with. Did you go through the process of testing your plate to determine thickness etc?

Also, have you just pressed these braces into your usual solera with the radius around the lower bout or a bigger radius?

Keep us informed as you go.
Cheers
Dom

[jeffhigh]

Hey Martin, nice work, only a couple of falcate classicals so far on here, Jeff was/did make one as well i think.
(how is/did that one go Jeff?)

But I am keen to get an idea of where your top comes out with whatever brace height and plate thickness combinations you end up with. Did you go through the process of testing your plate to determine thickness etc?

Also, have you just pressed these braces into your usual solera with the radius around the lower bout or a bigger radius?

Keep us informed as you go.
Cheers
Dom

Video of it is in the gallery Dom
I was happy with the result
Cheers
Jeff

[kiwigeo]

Hey Martin, nice work, only a couple of falcate classicals so far on here, Jeff was/did make one as well i think.
(how is/did that one go Jeff?)

But I am keen to get an idea of where your top comes out with whatever brace height and plate thickness combinations you end up with. Did you go through the process of testing your plate to determine thickness etc?

Also, have you just pressed these braces into your usual solera with the radius around the lower bout or a bigger radius?

Keep us informed as you go.
Cheers
Dom

Dom,

No I havent gone through the plate testing as per Trevor/Gerards book. The build started as a fan braced hauser style classical and as I was about to start bracing up I decided to go with falcate bracing. Ill attempt a bit of testing after bracing up but I need to sort out software on the Mac.....there arent many decent cheap freq analyzers around for the Apples.

The braces were just pressed into the solera which has my standard scoop in the lower bout area. The top is however mounted on a cork mat with lower bout area removed ala Campiano so the lower bout doming is greater than on my previous builds.

[kiwigeo]

CF tow applied to top of braces after shaping same. In typical fashion halfway through the application of the tow one of my wife's bldi friends knocks on the door of the workshop and wants to waffle on......shes one of these nosey friends who keeps turning up unannounced and at the worst possible moment. Nothing worse when youre working with a resin pot life of 10 minutes.

Anyway thats all Im doing today...off to the pub to apply some beer.

[Kim Strode]

Hi Martin,

I'm a little confused, or maybe just missing something...or a little slow! Why have you glued CF to the top of the braces and then chiselled same off when dry?

[jeffhigh]

The forum software seems to post pictures in reverse order.
The top of the braces is tapered from high at the bridge before the tow is put on top

[kiwigeo]

The flippin' photos are in backwards sequence....

Everybody just turn your computer screens upside down and it'll all make sense

[Nick]

The flippin' photos are in backwards sequence....

Everybody just turn your computer screens upside down and it'll all make sense

Or stand on your head

[Dominic]

Video of it is in the gallery Dom
I was happy with the result
Cheers
Jeff

Jeff, did I miss any frequency plots or other info for this one? I remember we were discussing the required brace heights and your targets. How did that go? Did you hit your targets.

Martin is obviously very philosophical about guitar building and is focussed on the journey and not the destination. And this is why he is taking his new guitar apart? Or else he had a session after going to the pub.

Dom

[jeffhigh]

Video of it is in the gallery Dom
I was happy with the result
Cheers
Jeff

Jeff, did I miss any frequency plots or other info for this one? I remember we were discussing the required brace heights and your targets. How did that go? Did you hit your targets.

Martin is obviously very philosophical about guitar building and is focussed on the journey and not the destination. And this is why he is taking his new guitar apart? Or else he had a session after going to the pub.

Dom

Well I was aiming for 190 but ended up with 95/180/ 226 or thereabouts, was sitting on 190 with a full height back brace but dropped down as I scalloped it to get the live back 4 semitone separation thing.
Which is ok for a flamenco.
The SS twin ended up as a 100/190/240

[kiwigeo]

A few more pics. Fitted and glued in the UTB and applied tow to top of same. Cutting out slots to fit the ends of the braces was an absolute P in the proverbial. I have a few ideas for making this job a bit easier the next time around.

[Tod Gilding]

Looking Good Marty

"Cutting out slots to fit the ends of the braces was an absolute P in the proverbial. I have a few ideas for making this job a bit easier the next time around."

Make sure you pass on the few idea's Martin, I will be going through this process myself soon, as soon as I get my new work bench built

[kiwigeo]

Back from a trip to NZ and about to get back to work on the classical. While its a falcate braced instrument, because Im building spanish method I wont be able to follow Gore and Gilets guidelines to the letter. The sides and top will be attached using tantalones rather than the large linings specified by G and G. A compromise may be to cut my own oversized tantalones.......currently doing a bit of brainstorming on this and other issues.

Today the Blackwood side sets got rough sanded to circa 3.5mm. Id like to bend the sides as thick as possible......should get them bent tomorrow.

Havent yet decided to go for a live or non-live back. On a classical a live back doesnt seem to have much margin for error in its tuning. I do like a challenge so it'll most likely be a live back Ill go for.

I've managed to get VA up and running on my Mac and am waiting on a cable to connect the mic (Shure SM57) to the mac line input via a SMPro XMP1 preamp. Once that's done there'll be a bit of (free plate) tap tone practise on the back plates.

[Trevor Gore]

Martin,

Not sure whether you've just not got round to it yet, but filling the gap between the neck block and the UTB is always a good idea.

[kiwigeo]

Martin,

Not sure whether you've just not got round to it yet, but filling the gap between the neck block and the UTB is always a good idea.

I was going to ask a question on that one. Id normally run a cross grain ("paddle pop") patch between the UTB and the end of the neck block.

[liam_fnq]

Back from a trip to NZ and about to get back to work on the classical. While its a falcate braced instrument, because Im building spanish method I wont be able to follow Gore and Gilets guidelines to the letter. The sides and top will be attached using tantalones rather than the large linings specified by G and G. A compromise may be to cut my own oversized tantalones.......currently doing a bit of brainstorming on this and other issues..

Martin, I build my ukes Spanish style but don't do the individual tentellones as they shit me. I just glue a set of kerfed or solid linings in, level them, then glue the whole side to front and to tail block at once as well as doing the neck slot wedges at the same time.

[Nick]

Martin, I build my ukes Spanish style but don't do the individual tentellones as they shit me.

No no, don't hold back Liam, tell us what you really think of them .
Looking good so far Martin, personally I blame Trevor for starting this whole 'falcate' ball rolling.

[kiwigeo]

Martin, I build my ukes Spanish style but don't do the individual tentellones as they shit me.

No no, don't hold back Liam, tell us what you really think of them .
Looking good so far Martin, personally I blame Trevor for starting this whole 'falcate' ball rolling.

Mate this falcate thing IS getting me hooked. My next house is going to be a falcate house. Id love a falcate car but it wouldnt be much good except for driving in circles.

[kiwigeo]

Back from a trip to NZ and about to get back to work on the classical. While its a falcate braced instrument, because Im building spanish method I wont be able to follow Gore and Gilets guidelines to the letter. The sides and top will be attached using tantalones rather than the large linings specified by G and G. A compromise may be to cut my own oversized tantalones.......currently doing a bit of brainstorming on this and other issues..

Martin, I build my ukes Spanish style but don't do the individual tentellones as they shit me. I just glue a set of kerfed or solid linings in, level them, then glue the whole side to front and to tail block at once as well as doing the neck slot wedges at the same time.

Are your uke tops domed at all? Although in theory the doming on my classicals isnt supposed to extend right to the sides, in reality it occasionally does and tantalones have to be shaped on a sanding board to ensure good fit.

Ill certainly give your suggestion some serious thought.