In Japan, wood planing can get ridiculously competitive

[woodrat]

A friend sent me this link tonight...I though that I would share it with the brethren for everyone's amusement (perhaps amazement) .... There are some fine plane fettlers in Japan but do they have a social life???! LOL

http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/won ... mpetitive/

Cheers

John

[Nick]

Thanks for posting this interesting vid John, these boys must take a while sharpening their blades!
It's funny how the Japanese seem to operate on the pull stroke whereas the western system uses the push stroke, even there cars work by pulling the vehicle rather than pushing!

[charangohabsburg]

9 microns sounds pretty thin, this would be 0.9/100 mm. I am fine with a 3/100 mm shaving. I only know this because when I was starting to use handplanes a few years ago I measured the shavings of my first attempts because I had no other reference to know if my plane (and me ) was performing as an experienced woodworker would expect it from a reasonably tuned plane. I never measured anything thinner than 2/100 mm, and then abandoned measuring shavings in favour of luthierie

In this article here the author says that the record was a shaving of 3 microns!
Check out that article, the width of those shavings is also interesting!

[kiwigeo]

Thanks for posting this interesting vid John, these boys must take a while sharpening their blades!
It's funny how the Japanese seem to operate on the pull stroke whereas the western system uses the push stroke, even there cars work by pulling the vehicle rather than pushing!

More control pulling a plane rather than pushing it.. Pushing means having body weight to exert on the plane but downside of that is the plane is harder to control. Pulling means you have less body weight to help you move the plane but youll have much more control. One key to proper working of a Japanese plane is placement of your legs and body.

[P Bill]

More control pulling a router rather than pushing as well.

[Tod Gilding]

[

More control pulling a plane rather than pushing it.. Pushing means having body weight to exert on the plane but downside of that is the plane is harder to control. Pulling means you have less body weight to help you move the plane but youll have much more control. One key to proper working of a Japanese plane is placement of your legs and body.

You Just Have to push it the right way Marty

[Nick]

More control pulling a plane rather than pushing it.. Pushing means having body weight to exert on the plane but downside of that is the plane is harder to control. Pulling means you have less body weight to help you move the plane but youll have much more control. One key to proper working of a Japanese plane is placement of your legs and body.

Not just planes but their saws also cut on the pull, just wondering why the Japanese have been doing stuff right yet us westerners have stuck with a slightly less than ideal methodology.

[woodrat]

Of course its an interesting discussion and I agree that pulling saws and planes is probably the better way to do it. Having said that I cant get used to pulling planes but I like my Japanese saw so I am 1/2 way there...viva la difference...

[kiwigeo]

More control pulling a router rather than pushing as well.

I generally push my routers.......pulling a power tool towards you isnt what I consider safe. Personal choice of course and the payoff is not always being able to see where the cutter is going while pushing.

[Nick]

I generally push my routers.......pulling a power tool towards you isnt what I consider safe. Personal choice of course and the payoff is not always being able to see where the cutter is going while pushing.

After several discarded attempts, Martin finally managed to route the neck pocket correctly.....

[P Bill]

More control pulling a router rather than pushing as well.

I generally push my routers.......pulling a power tool towards you isnt what I consider safe. Personal choice of course and the payoff is not always being able to see where the cutter is going while pushing.

When pulling a router, if it wants to buck, your arms act as shock absorbers and its quite safe.

[Tod Gilding]

I Have to admit that I am a Puller but I can push if need be

[kiwigeo]

More control pulling a router rather than pushing as well.

I generally push my routers.......pulling a power tool towards you isnt what I consider safe. Personal choice of course and the payoff is not always being able to see where the cutter is going while pushing.

When pulling a router, if it wants to buck, your arms act as shock absorbers and its quite safe.

My reasoning is that if it bucks or you lose your footing there's a danger you'll fall backwards with the router on top of you...especially the case if your feet arent positioned appropriately. Pushing the router reduces the risk of this happening. Of course position of the work and cutter direction relative to the router direction may govern whether you push or pull but I just feel more comfortable pushing rather than pulling. Like I said the foregoing is purely my personal view on working a router.

[martintaylor]

I'd never really thought about it until this thread. Had to actually go out and see what I was doing. Turns out I am a puller with my Laminate trimmer, Dremel and Larger router.

We had a teacher at my All Boys high school who was Mr Pullar. So unfortunate for him, so funny for us at the time.

[Nick]

Must admit, when routing I usually push when roughing out the bulk and then pull on the finishing cut. Don't know if it's a recognised practice (self taught) but it's a crossover to my day job, you always rough out with an upcut and finish with a downcut (climb milling), although CNC mills can use downcut to do all cutting now due to the stiffness of the all tungsten cutters.
You always get a better finish with a downcut and it's such a small amount of material I'm removing that if there is any bucking, I can control it with my two shock absorbers.

[charangohabsburg]

My reasoning is that if it bucks or you lose your footing there's a danger you'll fall backwards with the router on top of you...

...and if you push it you will fall onto the router for the same reasons!

@ Nick: So, do you push or pull your CNC equipment?

[Kamusur]

Of course its an interesting discussion and I agree that pulling saws and planes is probably the better way to do it. Having said that I cant get used to pulling planes but I like my Japanese saw so I am 1/2 way there...viva la difference...

The Japanese pull saw has been an excellent eye opener, there's just so much control with those fine teeth John i just love em.
I will leave the discussion of pulling routers though in the same vein as pulling a lawn mower towards yourself.. all tools can bite.

Steve

[kiwigeo]

...and if you push it you will fall onto the router for the same reasons!

@ Nick: So, do you push or pull your CNC equipment?

Joking is ok but how many of us can honestly state that theyve have actually thought about all this prior to powering up a router??

[charangohabsburg]

Jokes aside Martin: how hard do you push your router?

[Nick]

Joking is ok but how many of us can honestly state that theyve have actually thought about all this prior to powering up a router??

I always think about machinery and the incredible power it posesses to do serious damage to the human body in a very quick amount of time, having seen what a simple piece of high speed steel & a few horsepower can do to a piece of steel. With regards to routers, whilst I finish with a pull toward me cut I'm actually standing off to one side so that it's travelling diagonally across and toward me, so if it does bite and I can't or haven't hung onto it, it takes off off to one side of me, similar to cutting on a table saw, directly in the line of travel/fire is the last place I want to be standing!

[P Bill]

The things we do as luthiers can seem on the benign end of the scale but it can be dangerous as working in a mill. Especially working on our own. It's possible to pass out and bleed to death. Safety is as basic as a clean workshop, lead management and no loose clothing near the work. ( or a ponytail near a drillpress )
Every Friday, for two years we took the same 70 question written safety test. Ours was machine specific, you can find shorter, more general ones online.

[Nick]

( or a ponytail near a drillpress )

You still have hair Bill??!!! I'd have to get an actual pony in to the shop to accomplish that But you are right, usually working on our own we must be so mindful of what could go wrong before starting anything and making plans to counter it. Even hand tools can have dire consequences in the right setting.

[P Bill]

Nick, each one of my remaining hairs now has a name.

[Nick]

Nick, each one of my remaining hairs now has a name.

[woodrat]

Nick, each one of my remaining hairs now has a name.

Bill I hope the list is longer than...Tom...Dick ...and Harry! LOL