Gore medium SS clone #2-4

[Dominic]

Trevor mentioned in the Gallery that the nice looking NGR guitar shown (by an outragoiusly young maker mind you )was the first clone from"The Book" I am just started making 3 clones, all medium falcate braced SS. A cocobolo cutaway, an Ovangkol cutaway and a padak cutaway. While not a clone, I am also making a falcated braced Hauser classical from some lovely tiger myrtle I got at the raise money for the ANZLF auction. All these guitars have had their material properties measured and recorded I have/will use all the techniques learned from the book and course. Some of the tops were used in the top cooking experiment done during the course.

I'll put some pictures up in a minute but I will show mostly bits where new techniques are used. Solid linings, live backs, all cutaways and I've kept this little hard edge on the cutaway horn as it shows in the pattern. Hard to make it right but I recon it looks great.
Anyway, I'll find the cable for my camera and put them up.
Cheers
Dom

[Clancy]

Bring it on!

[J.F. Custom]

Bring it on!

Indeed.

Jeremy.

[Dominic]

Damn, can't find my camera cable. It must be here somewhere

[Dominic]

Always in the last place you look.

Ok, I had some silver ash and it bent beautifully. I bent both the cutaway and non-cutaway linings on my bender but the cutaway linings needed a lot more work to get them to fit. But with a bit of water they were soft but resisliant and never felt like breaking even when over bending the cutaway horn. But first, on my mould I made little risers that screw around the edge which meant I could use my small clamps. Pictures will explain things.

Falcate Med SS 004 (Custom).JPG (56.65 KiB) Viewed 24469 times

Falcate Med SS 005 (Custom).JPG (58.94 KiB) Viewed 24469 times

And here is the result. Worked really well and the sides conformed perfectly to the mould.

Falcate Med SS 002 (Custom).JPG (55 KiB) Viewed 24469 times

Falcate Med SS 003 (Custom).JPG (50.84 KiB) Viewed 24469 times

Making a bunch of backs and I wanted something to make cutting the slots for the braces through the centre web. If you have seen the latest GAL journal you'll know where I got the inspiration. But I came up with a simple magnetic guide for my little japanese detail saw. Worked great, nice square and verticle cuts that needed no cleaning up. And all my braces fit perfectly. First the jig, and then a couple of backs and last my bent sides. I was very worried about bending the Padauk but it came out lovely.

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Falcate Med SS 008 (Custom).JPG (54.05 KiB) Viewed 24469 times

Falcate Med SS 009 (Custom).JPG (51.6 KiB) Viewed 24469 times

Falcate Med SS 001 (Custom).JPG (48.07 KiB) Viewed 24469 times

Cheers
Dom

[Dominic]

One thing I'll do differently on the next bodies (the one in the picture is cocobolo) is let the linings into the head block about 10mm like you would do on a violin. It will make it look neater and it will stiffen up that part of the structure. Or, it will prevent it being a weak spot.

The other thing is that this is a one sided mould so the top is the top for a right hand cutaway. But the risers just flip over and screw to the top as well. I spent a while getting this mould perfect and square And that is my flat and square registration surface. And on the bottom you might make out some small mortices made with my domino. Into these I fit 50mm high blocks so I can push the sides down through the mould, they stay snug.

I'll take some pics of these and show what I mean.
Cheers
Dom

[Dominic]

Hey, I've had problems with my phone line and had no internet for weeks.

I meant to post these pictures before the meltdown. Next time you cut some scarf joints make a few of these wedges. But placing the clamping pressure square to the glue joint it won't slip and you don't need all the extra clamps.
Dom

Scarf joint gluing 005 (Custom).JPG (49.07 KiB) Viewed 24285 times

Scarf joint gluing 002 (Custom).JPG (59.13 KiB) Viewed 24285 times

[Dominic]

A few more ideas.

I had a band clamp to use for making falcate braces but i did not like how it was working as the edges opened up a bit.

So I cut off some SS sheet to fit and now it works great. A couple of clamps where the braces are straight and it got perfect joins. I also used LMI white glue and they turned out better than the epoxy ones. No glue line and I felt safer putting more pressure on than with epoxy.

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Braces 010 (Custom).JPG (58.28 KiB) Viewed 24198 times

My angle finder for back braces. I glued on smaller triangles on each side so I can use it while gluing braces and it does not smear the glue.

Braces 015 (Custom).JPG (38.58 KiB) Viewed 24198 times

And I can't see any reason not to pre make the bridge patches with carbon fibre backing, clean it up then glue it down with the roves underneath. Looks a lot neater and it overcomes Mr Clancy's issue with cutting it. I did them in my dish so that they have the correct radius.

Cheers
Dom

Braces 012 (Custom).JPG (36.07 KiB) Viewed 24198 times

[Clancy]

So did you pre-load a piece of rectangular cf weave with epoxy, clamp it in the dish until set, then cut it to shape?

Some nice tips there too Dom, thanks mate.

[Dominic]

Yep, I put some stiff plastic down in my dish then clamped them in the go bar deck with oven paper and a sheet of thin mdf. Did 3 that came out very stable.
Cheers
Dom
PS, I'm happy to be shown I am wrong if there is a good reason

[J.F. Custom]

So now I'm a little confused...

I interpreted what you said, to be that you pre-fabricated the bridge plate off the guitar. Meaning the timber and CF weave together in the go-bar deck, then once set, cleaned the CF back to the timber shape.

Now I think (may be wrong) that Craig believes you just used the CF and epoxy 'alone' in the go deck to make a CF 'plate' once set. Then you cut, glued and shaped to the timber face.

I am confused because it appears you agreed with him? Is this what you did or was my first assumption correct?

Perhaps I misunderstood Craig??

Thanks for the posts btw Dom I'm living workshops vicariously at present as my two week old daughter is not permitting me any time in my own... How inconsiderate.

Jeremy.

[Dominic]

Yes, no, yes.

No, stuck the wood and cf together in the go bar deck, then shaped. You see in one of the pics how the epoxy has soaked into the rosewood.

Dom

[Clancy]

Ahhhh, I get it

[simso]

Neat

[Dominic]

Here are a few mould mods I made. I mentioned previously I used dominos to join feet to the mould so I can work on the top edge and the back sits above the bench. Also in the pic are the extensions I made for gluing the head and tail blocks. Once they are set I remove these.
This is the third body, this one in ovankol.
I am in the process of making a fretboard radius jig that is modelled on (or a direct rip off) from the one luthier suppliers offers. It runs through the drum sander but won't do compound. Neat jig though. I'll post pics of that as I go.
Cheers
Dom

Mould additions 005 (Custom).JPG (55.09 KiB) Viewed 24017 times

[Dominic]

Hi Trevor,
A question about my method for bridge patch construction. Can you see any issue with gluing the carbon fibre to the wood patch, then shape it then glue it to the soundboard? I assume you do it in one go to make things faster but am I missing anything? I am sure there will be room for the rove underneath in the glue line once the fibres are spread out a bit.

But I've got a number of tops ready for braces and bridge patches as I get the bodies ready and steel myself for the epoxy bit. So I wanted to check this point before making the same mistake on 4 tops.

Thanks
Dom

[Trevor Gore]

I usually do it in one hit, Dom, because I like the idea of it all setting up together, but there's no great rationale to that. I can't see any problem with what you're about to attempt. You'll still need to pre-drill for the bridge pin holes and dowel the bridge plate so that it doesn't move when you put down the other braces, just as per normal.

When you trim up the bridge plate, don't use your bandsaw - instant death for a blade meant for wood (or metal, for that matter).

Let us know how it goes.

[kiwigeo]

When you trim up the bridge plate, don't use your bandsaw - instant death for a blade meant for wood (or metal, for that matter).

Tell me something I dont know.....

[Dominic]

Thanks, its pretty easy to do it this way. I suppose I just need to rough up the bottom epoxy carbon layer so it keys in with the new glue and top. I scored the shape in the wood blanks but left them a little over size. Once the carbon epoxy had set I cut off as much as I could with scissors and then used the belt and spindle sanders to refine up to my scored line.
I spent time making my templates and drill jigs as perfect as I could. Bruce might remember this lovely length of brass bar. I had 4 practice goes at getting the holes perfect in scrap aluminium. Then all was going well on my first bit of brass stock. I was feeling (over) confident, and on the last hole the drill bit grabbed the stock as it punched through, I was not holding it tight enough and lifted the stock causing the hole to skew. F#!^k. One bit of brass left and this time I used clamps and took my time and got this. The holes are perfect to the centre line and I can flip it over and it is the same. Made these SS pins and attached it to a clear base with a long centre line. Then lined up the bridge patch and bridge templates and drilled through them.

I've always done this free hand each time which is time consuming and often results in little inconsistencies that bug me. So with these guitars, every time I think to myself, I should make a jig or template for this part of the build I stop and do it. Slow going but its a good investment in consistency and productivity.
And the only way any of us can get more than ~ $1.27 per hour for our highly skilled labour is to charge more or get more productive.

Anyway, here are the results.

Driil jigs 002 (Custom).JPG (47.57 KiB) Viewed 23930 times

Driil jigs 005 (Custom).JPG (38.69 KiB) Viewed 23930 times

Driil jigs 006 (Custom).JPG (36.47 KiB) Viewed 23930 times

[Nick]

Nice job Dominic, it's looking the dogs bollocks so far . A little trick of the trade (if you can call it that), when drilling brass, if you have an eze lap or fine oil stone just rub it at 90degrees to the cutting edge (parallel to the axis of the drill) so that you end up with a small flat along that cutting edge, it doesn't need much! a face 0.5mm is more than enough. Brass is a soft short chip material (as is cast iron) and so will always try and grab as you describe, even when and especially when opening out a previously drilled hole. 'Blunting' the edge changes the drills cutting action/geometry & will negate the need to clamp the job down so much, just holding it in a vice will sufice. A quick tickle on the grinding wheel afterwards restores the edge back to it's steel drilling best.

[Dominic]

That's a good idea Nick. I realised very quickly how little experience I had with precision metal work once I started to try drilling accurate holes. Would I be able to fill the dodgy hole in the other brass block with solder or something so it can be salvaged? Brazing or something?

I might make a bit with blunt sides just for using the drill guide so I don't enlarge holes in the brass when drilling. If I'm drilling cf with it I may as well keep it away from my sharp bits anyway and I can just keep the tip sharp.
Cool.
Cheers
Dom

[Nick]

It's just the bit I've coloured in red that needs blunting

drillbit.jpg (33.58 KiB) Viewed 23896 times

It changes the rake (angle) of the cutting edge (angle between the flute & point surface in the diagram) from a positive cutting angle into a negative & negates the possibility of the bit digging in & grabbing the brass/job.

And you could also make a 'plug' of brass to fit in your bad hole & silver solder (prefered method) or braze it in.

[Dominic]

Thanks for the picture Nick, I should have read more carefully, I thought you meant the side flutes. It was them that opened up the hole once it grabbed and lifted one end. But I get it now, its the same as a negative rake angle on a non-ferris saw blade, it pushes the stock down rather than lifting it up.
Cheers
Dom

[Dominic]

OK, I got the fretboard radius jig I mentioned done today. This is with 16" rails. A 1/4" fretboard sits 1.5mm above the curved rail and scribes a 16" radius as the fret block moves around the arch.
I still have to add a centre line and some pins to hold my fretboards and tick makes around the rails. If you have not seen this work, you start with the FB in the middle and run it through the drum sander lowering the drum until it just touches. Then move the FB in steps 5mm at a time one way then the other and you end up with nicely radiused FB with only minimal cleaning up.

The pictures should make it pretty clear how it works.
Cheers
Dom

Radius jig 005 (Custom).JPG (61.59 KiB) Viewed 23857 times

Radius jig 001 (Custom).JPG (64.5 KiB) Viewed 23857 times

Radius jig 002 (Custom).JPG (56.18 KiB) Viewed 23857 times

Radius jig 004 (Custom).JPG (57.33 KiB) Viewed 23857 times

[Mike Thomas]

That's an interesting method of radiusing the fingerboard Dom. When feeding it through the drum sander, I imagine that you have to be very careful to align the jig at right angles to the drum, so that it sands along the length parallel to the line of the strings, and not skewed.