Hi tech fret installation.

[Jeremy D]

Today I fretted my first instrument, very happy with myself .

This morning when I was preparing I thought I would browse youtube and get a few different perspectives on it. I came across this video. It made me feel a whole lot my comfortable with my process


youtu.be/

[Tod Gilding]

I love watching master tradesman at work

[simso]

Mmm, I hope thats sarcasm, am appaled with his process, hitting a nickel silver fret in with a steel set of vice jaws. And whats the deal fretting a fretboard when its not fitted to a guitar, what a waste of time that is.

Maybe he built that guitar I showed a little while back

[jeffhigh]

huh
Thanks now I know what I am doing wrong

[Jeremy D]

I love watching master tradesman at work

A true master of his craft

[Ormsby Guitars]

I forget the business, but this guy is paid to do these videos. Hideous work throughout all of them.

[kiwigeo]

The guy cant be getting much work...he cant afford a fret hammer.

[Kim]

That's a pretty unrefined approach for sure, but I personal have no issue whatsoever with fretting the board off the guitar. If you've done everything else right along the way and know how to get the alignment right when gluing to the neck then getting the frets in while the board is off the guitar can save a heap of work and potential damage.

Cheers

Kim

[simso]

Not my style kim.

I believe even with a perfectly flat neck surface a perfectly flat fretboard then fretted and attached together will not give a perfectly flat final product. IMO you will have to file some frets to much to get a good end result

On the other hand, a fretboard fitted to a neck with truss rod just engaged and then the fretboard dressed and fretted will give the best end result, minimal fret dressing required to get an exceptionally low action. This way the wood IMO is in balance or tension with itself prior to being planed and shaped

I cannot see any way you could damage a neck or guitar whilst fretting correctly.

[Kim]

I believe even with a perfectly flat neck surface a perfectly flat fretboard then fretted and attached together will not give a perfectly flat final product. IMO you will have to file some frets to much to get a good end result

Like I said steve, I have no issue with fitting a pre-fretted board at all...most times 'no' levelling is required ....none at all, just a crown and polish and there done, level as they will ever be so you can set the action where you like. When hammering frets over a spruce soundboard there's always going to be potential for a mishap and I simply don't see the need to be shocking glue joints etc with the impact of hammering frets when you don't need to do it that way. But at the end of the day it's whatever works for you that's best for you. What works just fine for me and plenty of other builders, some with literally hundreds of instruments under their belt, is to fret the board off the guitar. Must ask...have you ever tried or is your belief based upon assumption??

[MBP]

If fretting off the neck how do you go with glueing. The board would be bowed a little bit, I just wonder if you then level it (the bottom of the fret board) or just clamp it all down.

Kim, do you glue the board to a fully shaped/sized neck or glue it and then shape/size the neck?
Do you leave two frets out for positioning or is there another way?

Thanks,

[simso]

Morning kim, first let me start with the opening statement I am more of a repairer than a builder, for those people that build guitars all day here in perth like perry I have the utmost respect. Dont get me wrong I can and do build guitars.

However as a repairer, my job is to fix manufacturing screw ups, or simple accidents or restorations, so my approach may be somewhat different to a builders approach.

I have 4 refrets in the shop at the momment one neeeds a new board, I would not refret the board prior to fitment to the guitar, there are plenty of reasons why, but the main one is the neck and fretboard when fitted together form a final product, that is the tensions and pressures are distributed and in balance or in tension if you so wish. From this in balance union of two woods Im planing a flat surface to be fretted.

IMO when you fret a board of the guitar you will be inducing backbow through the board, then you are attempting to glue a backbowed fretboard to a neck, allow in for any dimensional changes that may occur on top of this from the union of the fretboard to the neck and I feel you have a recipe for ongoing problems, which can no longer be addressed becuase you have a glued up finished product. Add into this the shaping of a fretted board to a neck required and I can not see any gains.

Im very surprised kim, that the necks made via this process do not need to be fret levelled, Even via my process I still fret level at the end and recrown, but the amount of material removed is almost negligible, but its done

[jeffhigh]

I fret the unglued board too.
I feel it gived me a consistency with pressing the frets and enables me to deal with any induced backbow before glueup.
The last two I did have required no leveling.
I just use short locating pins drilled though fret slots and then trimmed below fret tang level so that I can fully fret the board.
A rigid level caul above the board is essential for glueup.
I shape the board first then match the neck to it

[auscab]

Kim or Jeff, or any of the, “fret the board off the neck builders/ repairers”

Do any of you glue in the frets as well?

[Ormsby Guitars]

ONE large scale manufacturer frets their boards prior to gluing. They are Gibson. That fact alone makes me want to do it the other way.

[kiwigeo]

Kim or Jeff, or any of the, “fret the board off the neck builders/ repairers”

Do any of you glue in the frets as well?

I run a bead of Titebond along tang of my frets prior to hammering them in....but I fret with the fretboard on the guitar.

[jeffhigh]

I use a bead of titebond too.

Gib...... Dont use bad language here.

[Kim]

If fretting off the neck how do you go with glueing. The board would be bowed a little bit, I just wonder if you then level it (the bottom of the fret board) or just clamp it all down.

Kim, do you glue the board to a fully shaped/sized neck or glue it and then shape/size the neck?
Do you leave two frets out for positioning or is there another way?

Thanks,

My process is to start with a dead flat board. It is then slotted on a TS and the radius milled via a router jig. The tapper is cut and the board fretted and left to sit overnight, or longer if required, suspended frets up between two smallish blocks (hight of the blocks is determined by hardness of wood the FB is made from, but generally around 13mm) with a gobar placed at the centre to provide app 8 to 10lb pressure loading the board into relief, and pushing it down to the deck surface. This removes the back bow and compresses the wood in the fret slots into the tang of the wire.

When the board is glued to the neck all but app 200mm of the shaft has been calved and left to stabilise. This is to say that the heel has been completed and so to has the headstock transition onto the very beginning of the shaft and from that point app 10mm of waste remains on either side. To this 10mm strip of waste wood, 4 small blocks are glued in place to act as locators for the FB. At this stage the glue surface of the neck is dead flat having and just prior to application of glue, I use epoxy, a sharp scraper is pulled down the length of the truss rod fillet to provide a tad of relief down the centre of the neck surface, doing this will produce a less visible glue line between the FB and the neck.

A faux nut is then fitted where it needs to be to act as a positioning stop and then the FB is glued and clamped with a thick hardwood caul slotted on a TS with a standard blade so it rides over the frets. This caul has a radius matching that of the FB however its centre length has been cleared so only the outer 12mm of each side will make contact with the FB. Again this is done to give a more discrete glue line between the neck surface and FB.

When the glue has dried...don't rush, I said dried, not 'cured enough to get the clamps off'.. leave it clamped up to a flat surface for a day or two, the locator blocks are then carved off with the waste strips as I shape the neck shaft and blend it into the heel and transition....I doubt Gibson have time for the detail.

Cheers

Kim

[Kim]

Kim or Jeff, or any of the, “fret the board off the neck builders/ repairers”

Do any of you glue in the frets as well?

Rob,

I use to, and sometimes still do use TB when installing frets (depends on the wood). I see it more as a lube to assist pressing but it also helps getting the frets back out down the track because it helps prevent breakout around the slot, not as much as a well ground set of end nippers will but together with a bit of heat on the fret first from a soldering iron, I hardly ever have a problem with tear out. That said, I now wick in CA once the board is on and TR has been loaded just a 'touch'. Oh and by the way, prior to fretting don't forget to relieve the fret slots with a small triangular file so they accept the flair of the tang where it meets the underside of the crown. This will ensure the frets sit down on the board like they are meant to all nice and flush.

Cheers

Kim

[kiwigeo]

Kim or Jeff, or any of the, “fret the board off the neck builders/ repairers”

Do any of you glue in the frets as well?

Rob,

I use to, and sometimes still do use TB when installing frets (depends on the wood). I see it more as a lube to assist pressing but it also helps getting the frets back out down the track because it helps prevent breakout around the slot, not as much as a well ground set of end nippers will but together with a bit of heat on the fret first from a soldering iron, I hardly ever have a problem with tear out. That said, I now wick in CA once the board is on and TR has been loaded just a 'touch'. Oh and by the way, prior to fretting don't forget to relieve the fret slots with a small triangular file so they accept the flair of the tang where it meets the underside of the crown. This will ensure the frets sit down on the board like they are meant to all nice and flush.

Cheers

Kim

+1 on Titebond on the tang and running a triangle file over the slot before fretting. I also run a dampened cotton bud along the slot to swell the wood a bit and aid in gripping the tang.

[simso]

I dont use titebond, but I do pre prep the fretslot with a light wicking of CA prior to installing any fret

[simso]

ONE large scale manufacturer frets their boards prior to gluing. They are Gibson. That fact alone makes me want to do it the other way.

Ahh but gibson have recitified that problem, didnt you know they now plek the guitars (loose frets , warped board doesnt matter) just plek it flat

[Bob Connor]

I fret my fingerboards before attaching to the neck using a press and a little Titebond.

I've done it both ways and this seems to work better for me.

Regards

[charangohabsburg]

I came across this video.

Totally weird vid!
Thanks for the link, I have to bookmark this guy's channel.

[Phil Mailloux]

I run a bead of Titebond along tang of my frets prior to hammering them in....but I fret with the fretboard on the guitar.

That's a good tip, I use Titebond too but always shove it in the slot with a small knife before pressing the fret, it makes a mess of glue on the fingerboard which always needs cleaning, I should've thought of just sticking it on the fret tang before, you've just made my life a lot easier