Jig for cutting nut slots

[Ormsby Guitars]

What the hell... subway was my deal too! We didnt get it delivered though, it was 30-45 minutes break (paid) for lunch.

[simso]

We are way too much alike perry

[simso]

I haven't done much repair. What goes wrong with a nut slot ?

Hey bill,

In capable hands not much.

The issue is any nut replacement will always need to have the floor area refaced before a new nut can be fitted, this is because wood moves slightly, different compression points from strings, weak headstocks, old hard glue set on the surface, poor previous repairs.. you name it, they all contribute to minute movement of the floor area.

Easiest way to check, is place a bone blank into the slot and it will rock from side to side or have gaps under the neds of the bone, all these indicate to a floor area needing dress work, you also have fender slots which are radiused some are 9.5's some are 7.25's some are just flat becuase it was to hard for a previous person to get it right.

Then comes the issue of when you dress the floor area it can go so wrong in the wrong hands, I speak now of the employee in question here, its bad enough if you sand a replacement bone nut out with gaps under the ends or incorrect string height, or shocking string spacing, but if you overfile the nut slot chasing your own errors it can go drastically wrong, it was this point I told the guiy he needs to take a couple of weeks leave, whilst I calmed down. I felt sick in the stomach looking at the job.

That being said, if I can make a jig or something that will work then theres a possible future still for him.

[simso]

On this note for the readers who are here,

What is your string spacing process, are you a spacing ruler person, a gap person or string centre spacing

Im a gap person, my guys find this to difficult so most of them use a spacing ruler

[Allen]

On guitars I use a gap spacing technique. On ukes its centre spacing.

[simso]

I haven't done much repair. What goes wrong with a nut slot ?

Heres an example of what can go wrong,

Note, this is after I have fitted a fill piece and dressed and shaped it, it just needs colouring to match

Note firstly the depth of the slot on the left, then note the depth on the right, way different,

Note that the base of the wood insert is not flat, this indicates the original slot had been filed at an angle as well, so the filler piece had to be matched to make a clean joint

Note the new dressed height of the nut floor

[simso]

Dressed floor area, ready to recieve a new nut

[Nick]

Heres an example of what can go wrong,

Note, this is after I have fitted a fill piece and dressed and shaped it, it just needs colouring to match

Note firstly the depth of the slot on the left, then note the depth on the right, way different,

Note that the base of the wood insert is not flat, this indicates the original slot had been filed at an angle as well, so the filler piece had to be matched to make a clean joint

Note the new dressed height of the nut floor

Shit! Thought I was looking at two different necks there for a minute Steve & I'm thinking "What's he on about angle?", then I realised it's the same friggin neck taken from different sides! Sorry Steve but if he can do that with a file he needs the bullet, it tells me he's not only no good with the tool but that he's not even applying a bit of grey matter to the task, most conscentious people would stop the moment they thought they were going slightly askew, this just tells me he's takin the piss. Gawd knows what he's capable of with a chisel!! It shouldn't be your responsibility to go to the expense of building jigs & tooling to accomodate just one guy in the shop. Something like that (a jig) could speed up the whole team's time spent reseating & as such be a benefit to the shop but it shouldn't be that long a process to begin with really to anybody half decent.

[simso]

Yeh, bit over fixing other peoples stuff ups...

I use the gap spacing method for string layout, it looks nicer and cleaner

[nnickusa]

Steve....

Couple days thinking about this.....15 minutes to knock up an example.....

The idea is that the neck gets clamped into the main box by using the profiled bit underneath. The cuts cradle the neck, and press it against the top plate. Centreing the clamp in the middle of it allows the cradle to tilt to accept the variations in neck profile. I'd line it with cork or vinyl and round the edges to avoid scarring of the neck. The zero fret is lined up with the edge of the cutout, or slide groove. The neck can be aligned by flushing the zero fret position with the edge of the slot. Glue a strip of sandpaper to the thin--5mm in this case--sanding face. The shouldered block then runs back and forth thru the slot until is runs flat. It is therefore impossible to rock the sanding block....

If you need to clean up the sides of the nut slot, simply make a thinner block, and line the sides, rather than the bottom with sandpaper. This would take off any glue or buildup on the surface..

I made a simple block, but one could be made with shoulders that slide up and down to set the desired depth of cut. As the slot is wider than the sanding face, a number of blocks could be made with varying witdhs to accomodate other width nuts...

In order to use this jig with guitars that have radiused nut bases, simply create a top with the desired radius, and then run the block thru that, again, it will--in theory--make it impossible to bugger up the slot, and guarantee a consistent result.

The one thing I've always found is that there is a tendency to "rock" when sanding a flat surface, which results in sides that are deeper than the centre. This should avoid that as well....

If I were going to use this myself, I'd make sure the tolerances I allowed were reduced to eliminate any wobble, but this may help your guy out...

[nnickusa]

Pix. I forgot them last time, and it wouldn't let me edit the post????

I suppose this is one approach, but it seems workable..

Good luck

[simso]

Nice mate.

Very good idea, to that point it could be used as a training box. Set both side reliefs you have there with a small steel cover plate so you cannot file through them, put it over a piece of wood and get the person to file a slot by hand until they are competant with a file

I like it a lot.

[nnickusa]

Thanks Steve.

When I did the nut slot on my first(only) guitar, I used my fretting saw, which has a depth guide, and made a series of cuts, after chiselling the seat area level, cleaned the slivers out with a small chisel, and trued up the bottom of the slot with a similar bit of timber on which I glued a bit of sandpaper...

I know that some folks have a bit of a mental block when it comes to some things...I had a carpenter work for me who was very competent, but could never mortise hinges without making a mess of it. Solution? He never hung doors for me again....That meant that whenever finish work came up, he was out of work, but he always had some to come back to on the next job....

If you show this to your guy, he may be able to come up with something workable for him...

If he has to provide the solution, you may find that the effort he puts into working that out solves the problem for him....

Good luck, again...

[GregL]

Hi Nick,

Great jig idea!

Off topic, but I love the Iceman! How long have you had it?

Thanks,
GregL.

[auscab]

Good one Nick .
I have been scratching my head on this one as well and was thinking of a frame like yours but got stuck on the holding the cutter bit. seeing yours solved the problem.
I made a tool like a plane makers float out of tool steel, it's a bit like one of these

http://www.lie-nielsen.com/catalog.php?cat=534

But I was trying it free hand with average results. I will try a frame like yours and where you hold the sand paper on a block it may be possible to hold and adjust a float. Micro adjusting it down each cut.

[Nick]

Nice solution Nick! Was just thinking if your block that clamps on the underside of the neck was a closer fit in the sides of you guide block, provided to cradle blocks were 'inline' with each other then the guide block slot would have to be perpendicular to the neck's centreline. All the operator would have to do is get it lined up on the front edge of the slot (maybe a rule placed against the fingerboard's edge would act as a stop), less chance of getting the slot in the guide skewed slightly. When I've designed stuff for the students at work to use I've had to build in as much 'idiot proof-ness' as I can think, because there's some awefully clever idiots out there who come up with some awefully clever ways to still stuff it up!

[nnickusa]

Thanks guys. Rob, I'd be interested to see what you came up with in the end, along with anyone ele's ideas....

Nick, I'd be much more careful in the production of one I intended to use, but wanted to float this idea, but yeah, accurate fitting of that block would help alot. Also, one couild just use the sanding block itself to align the neck to the zero, provided the block fit more tightly than mine...

Ah, the Iceman...just happened to be what was hanging on the guitar holder today....It's a 1995 IC300 in Jewel Blue. Only made for two years....The pickups, original, are a bit hotter than I like, but that's what the volume and tone knobs are for

Got a her off a mate in NY...$370 landed, which I thought was pretty good value...

I'm working on a guitar that's derived from this, so keep an eye out in the gallery. Probably another couple months, as I started on the dread this weekend...bracing, and hope to have the box closed by week's end...

[auscab]

Thanks guys. Rob, I'd be interested to see what you came up with in the end, along with anyone ele's ideas....

If I get a chance to have a play with it Nick I will post it up.

[simso]

Resolved the situation, I let him go.

[nnickusa]

Shame for him, but I can't see what else you could do....still makes you feel a bit shitty doesn't it?

I've always hated the sacking....

[Lillian]

Steve, as much as it makes you feel like a heel, you did the right thing. He has been stealing from you every time he cashed his paycheck.

I had the same reaction as Nick when I saw the neck pictures. Where the hell was his head? That took some serious physical effort to stuff it up that badly. You're lucky he came around the look at the other side before he cut the head completely off.

Nnickusa, I really like your jig. Simple in design and execution. I'll have to pull this thread an archive it, just in case.