Suitable Rock Maple alternative(?)

[willcall]

Hi all, I am in the search for an Aussie timber which would be suitable for use as a neck timber on a tele build and has very similar visual aspects as rock maple.

I have been looking into Satin Box which looks perfect for the job but is nearly impossible to source.
I have also seen on this forum that Celery top has been used for acoustic necks.

Does anyone know if celery top would be suitable for a tele build?

Here are some stats for the Celery top Vs Rock maple


Density: (ct) 650kg/m3 (rm) 740kg/m3 (dry)
Strength: (ct) SD5 (rm)SD4 (seasoned)
Hardness: (ct)4.5 (rm) 7.3 (Janka)

To my uneducated eye it seems like the Celery Top would suit but would be more susceptable to being knocked around.

Cheers, Will

[peter.coombe]

How about Silver Ash? Celery Top should also be ok if you can get it.

Try Monaro Timbers in Canberra. They may have Silver Ash or Satin Box. Don't think I have ever seen Celery Top there, but I did buy some Silver Ash there a while ago.

Peter

[willcall]

How about Silver Ash? Celery Top should also be ok if you can get it.

Try Monaro Timbers in Canberra. They may have Silver Ash or Satin Box. Don't think I have ever seen Celery Top there, but I did buy some Silver Ash there a while ago.

Peter

Cheers, I have been in contact with Monaro Timbers.
They have a piece of Satin Box but he says it is not up to standard (a bit banged up and old) so didn't want to sell it to me.

Will

[jeffhigh]

Well i do not recall anyone else using celery top pine on a neck besides me.
I used it on an acoustic build about 3-4 years ago
It has stood up well structurally with only a small round Carbon fibre rod embeded towards the back of the neck, no adjustable trussrod, still has perfect relief.
It does have it's share of dings from accidental impact, probably slightly worse than if it were rock maple, but it is much harder than spruce which it superficially resembles.
I would be reluctant to use it for a single piece tele neck I don't think it would work well as a fretboard.

[J.F. Custom]

Hi Will.

I'd second that Silver Ash call. Varies a little, but can be silver white to creamy in colour, of good strength, weight and hardness - less prone to knocks than the celery top. Yellows over time with age but so does Rock Maple.

Lazarides in Banyo should have some, but as it grows in Qld you should find it at several good timber yards around, I would think.

Jeremy.

[ozwood]

I've seen some Silver ash , actually heaps at Anagote Timbers , ask for Dave , he only works every other week , but will Pick out a Nice 1/4 sawn piece ,

Dave's one of us and won't send you anything he would not use Himself.

Cheers ,

Paul

[MBP]

How about beech?

You might just be better off with rock maple.

I forgot the obvious tassie oak. You can get really figured stuff and fairly cheap too.

[Trevor Gore]

I wouldn't recommend "Tassie Oak" and stuff that goes under that trade name - too unstable with humidity and you never know quite what you're getting. Also be very careful with silver ash, there's more than one kind. There's the silvery looking stuff (when fresh) that makes great linings, bindings etc. and is very heat bendable and is NOT very suitable for necks (due to cold creep) and there is the stuff that is somewhat yellower when fresh (and has a stronger smell) which is denser and doesn't heat bend very well at all (more resistant to cold creep), so should make a good Tele neck as it seems stable enough. I've never been able to ascertain which of these silver ashes goes by what botanical name. Alternatively, Queensland maple works fine and can have a passing resemblance to real maple and if you want something different there's New Guinea rosewood. Both the latter two can come with nice figure.

[Allen]

All the Qld. Maple that I have looks more like Mahogany than Maple. At least the colouring is that way. It's very nice to use though, and is what I build most of my uke necks out of. I love using NGR, but that again is a different look and nothing like rock maple. It's cheap as chips up here. In fact I don't think I've ever had to buy a piece. Just get it as off cuts from the local cabinet maker shops etc.

[DarwinStrings]

G'day Will, if you find some satinbox I wouldn't mind getting a look at a bit if you can find it in Fender type neck blanks. PM me if you source it if you don't putting a bit in the post for me.

Jim

Life is good when you are amongst the wood

[MBP]

I wouldn't recommend "Tassie Oak" and stuff that goes under that trade name - too unstable with humidity and you never know quite what you're getting.

I have seen it used quite a bit on electric guitars. Wouldnt be a first choice (maple or NGR or blackwood probably) but it does work.
Bob Mac Millian (tassie tonewoods) sells quite a bit and Im pretty sure the stuff he sells is E. regnans.
depends on board to board like all timber i suppose.

[willcall]

Hi, here is a pic and a link to a guitar builder in Melbourne "twenty12 Guitars". He has built a Huon Pine & Satin box Tele for a customer which looks great.
I have spoken to Jon at 20-12, he said the satin box worked really well. It was an old piece of timber provided by the customer, as was the huon pine body blank.
http://twentytwelveguitars.com/?p=375

Jon also said this about the satin box "you'll be pleased with its tone, its a little more dense than maple but will give you a nice snap and twang. Its quite oily and suits a oil/wax finish very well. I had it sitting in my workshop for about 6 months before I used it and it remained very stable and true which is obviously a necessary part of a useable neck wood".


I would love to get hold of a stash of satin box.

Will

G'day Will, if you find some satinbox I wouldn't mind getting a look at a bit if you can find it in Fender type neck blanks. PM me if you source it if you don't putting a bit in the post for me.

Jim

Life is good when you are amongst the wood

[J.F. Custom]

Also be very careful with silver ash, there's more than one kind. There's the silvery looking stuff (when fresh) that makes great linings, bindings etc. and is very heat bendable and is NOT very suitable for necks (due to cold creep) and there is the stuff that is somewhat yellower when fresh (and has a stronger smell) which is denser and doesn't heat bend very well at all (more resistant to cold creep), so should make a good Tele neck as it seems stable enough. I've never been able to ascertain which of these silver ashes goes by what botanical name.

Hi Trevor.

Excuse the ignorance, but in what respect are you referring to "cold creep"? I had always assumed "cold creep" was referring to glue lines becoming visible, projecting through finishes etc as a result of slow gradual movement over time, or under differing climatic conditions. I was not aware it was relevant to the timber itself per se, thinking it more relevant to the choice in glue and possibly the atmospheric conditions it was used in. I therefore would not have thought it as relevant to a bolt-on single piece neck, such as found on a maple neck tele. Are you suggesting that some of the Silver Ash is not as stable and prone to movement under stress/heat/atmosphere or am I barking up the wrong tree?

Common names can be frustrating as so many timbers with differing properties can be grouped under the one in an effort to sell them. Silver Ash as I knew it is from the same family as Queensland maple, namely "Flindersia". This link may shed some light on the differing timbers you mention -

http://www.dpi.qld.gov.au/26_5663.htm

However, aside from the descriptions matching yours, the rest of the specifications of both trees do not vary as much as what it sounds you are suggesting/describing. Perhaps there is more difference in its region of origin, soil type etc than that data encompasses? Possibly though, there are other lesser known Flindersia's, or even other genus that find their way out there under the "Silver Ash" name.

Jeremy.

[Dominic]

Jeremy, check out this link and scroll down to where Allen Carruth is discussing cold creep of wood. http://www.acousticguitarforum.com/foru ... p?t=225890

Cheers
Dom

[willcall]

Still looking into alternatives to Rock Maple and came across Silver Quandong and Crows Ash/Aus. Teak.
Both have the correct colouring and both are fairly suitable (I think).

Crows ash has a Janka of 11.0+ which is a fair bit higher than Rock maple but is a little oily (apparently). Weighs a lot @ around 950kg/m3

Silver Quandong is around 500kg/m3 and has a Janka of about 4.0

Will

[willcall]

Well I finally got around to ordering some satin box blanks for a tele neck.
The size is perfect for what I want which is great.
A couple of the blanks have some minor flaming through them in a couple of spots which is nice.
Here are some pics showing the colour against some mixed species floor boards.

Can't wait to get at them.

Will

[Dominic]

I wouldn't recommend "Tassie Oak" and stuff that goes under that trade name - too unstable with humidity and you never know quite what you're getting. Also be very careful with silver ash, there's more than one kind. There's the silvery looking stuff (when fresh) that makes great linings, bindings etc. and is very heat bendable and is NOT very suitable for necks (due to cold creep) and there is the stuff that is somewhat yellower when fresh (and has a stronger smell) which is denser and doesn't heat bend very well at all (more resistant to cold creep), so should make a good Tele neck as it seems stable enough. I've never been able to ascertain which of these silver ashes goes by what botanical name. Alternatively, Queensland maple works fine and can have a passing resemblance to real maple and if you want something different there's New Guinea rosewood. Both the latter two can come with nice figure.

Hey Trevor, Re: Silver Ash, I have some slabs of 'silver ash' I got from the Canberra wood show a few years ago and I nice stick I got at Monaroes also a few years ago. Since neither is fresh so I am unsure how to tell if I have linings wood or neck wood. The slabs have slightly yellow grain lines and the stick is clearer but they look the same to me.
Is there some obvious way to tell what I have with older stock?

Neither seem to smell much. I actually started getting it after I saw this most amazing flamed silver ask sideboard thing in a woodwork mag. It was the most beautiful bit of wood I have seen, so clear and white and pure and set off with ebony details.
Cheers
Dom

[Trevor Gore]

Sorry Dom, I can't really tell you anything more. Probably the best thing to do is to try and heat bend it. Cut a 15-20mm slice and thickness it to ~2.3mm, then try to heat bend it by hand. If you have no problem, it is the silver/linings stuff. If it's a real struggle and breaks on tight bends it's the other stuff.

[DarwinStrings]

G'day Will, any chance on letting us know the secret of where you got it?

Jim

Someone please turn up the Tele!!!

[willcall]

G'day Will, any chance on letting us know the secret of where you got it?

Jim

Someone please turn up the Tele!!!

My little secret!!!!!!!!!!

No, I got it from Carl Karacsay of Karacsay Constructions in Colac.
He has 2 websites, 1 for housing construction & 1 for furniture. Here is the link to the furniture site.
He has some glorious pieces of furniture!!! http://www.blackwoodfurniture.com.au/

Carl is very accommodating to do business with. It took me about 3 months from first contact to when he could find the time to sort through his stock pile for me.
He can sell it in bulk for $15,000/m3 or smaller quantities.
I would love to visit his shop to check all that wonderful furniture and timber in his stock pile.

Cheers, Will