Baroque Lute, Thirteen Course

zendo · Post by **zendo** » Sun Jul 12, 2009 3:30 pm

Forty years ago I built a Renaissance Lute because as a Classical Guitarist giving concerts I wanted to try another stringed instrument. Making it was good fun even if much of it was built incorrectly eg. King Billy Pine soaked in the bathtub for the ribs. The timber merchants at the time told me that timber was only used for fence posts. Now I believe King Billy is even used for soundboards. I also bought a plank of Palisander from Matthews Timber yard in Melbourne (a few dollars from memory). Anyway now I am making a Baroque Lute from plans and notes by David Van Edwards in the UK. So far I have made a mould but will remake it completely because I'm not happy with the results. I will post anything useful as I go. My avatar photo is my Lute and myself forty years ago.

Any comments so far would be welcomed.

kiwigeo · Post by **kiwigeo** » Sun Jul 12, 2009 3:35 pm

Welcome to the forum Robert!

Good to see another lute builder in here.

Cheers Martin

Nick · Post by **Nick** » Sun Jul 12, 2009 5:10 pm

Welcome to the Forum Robert, it ain't a bad place to hang out.....despite some members

I shall be most interested in watching your build! between Martin's Rennaisance Lute and your Baroque it should help me to clear up a few questions, like which lute to build (the 13 course does look interesting) or if I end up swearing as much as Martin does, apparently, can my sanity actually stand making a lute?

That's funny...Martin remade his mould too! obviously something to watch out for.

Allen · Post by **Allen** » Sun Jul 12, 2009 6:36 pm

Hot damn, another Luthier. Welcome to the forum Robert.

There's not one of us that won't be watching your progress with anticipation. Good onya for taking the time to document it.

zendo · Post by **zendo** » Sun Jul 12, 2009 7:57 pm

kiwigeo wrote:Welcome to the forum Robert!

Good to see another lute builder in here.

Cheers Martin

Thanks for the encouragement Martin and you have been very helpful to me so far. How is your trip away looking at rocks?

I needed to ask you a question but I have decided to take all your advice and return to the drawing board and start all over again... eventually I may have a picture of a mould... this is a patient game to be in... cheers, Robert

zendo · Post by **zendo** » Sun Jul 12, 2009 7:59 pm

Nick O wrote:Welcome to the Forum Robert, it ain't a bad place to hang out.....despite some members
I shall be most interested in watching your build! between Martin's Rennaisance Lute and your Baroque it should help me to clear up a few questions, like which lute to build (the 13 course does look interesting) or if I end up swearing as much as Martin does, apparently, can my sanity actually stand making a lute?
That's funny...Martin remade his mould too! obviously something to watch out for.

Thanks Nick... I sense it is a good place to hang out... I am swearing a lot but the passion is still high... cheers, Robert

zendo · Post by **zendo** » Sun Jul 12, 2009 8:02 pm

Allen wrote:Hot damn, another Luthier. Welcome to the forum Robert.

There's not one of us that won't be watching your progress with anticipation. Good onya for taking the time to document it.

Thanks Allen. This forum is very encouraging and helpful. I hope I can be useful here someday also. I look forward to hearing more from you.... cheers, Robert

Dave White · Post by **Dave White** » Sun Jul 12, 2009 11:41 pm

Robert,

Welcome - I look forward to seeing your lute take shape. Even in the old days I don't think there were any "proper" woods, makers would have used whatever they had to hand that worked.

Any chance of posting some photos of your fourty year old as it is today?

Lillian · Post by **Lillian** » Mon Jul 13, 2009 1:19 am

Welcome Robert. Glad you decided to join in on the madness.

Watching Dave build his lute was great. I must have read through that thread several times. Eggbert sounds wonderful. Its beautiful to look at was well. The rosette is amazing.

I'm not sure which I appreciated more, his building skills or his willingness and ability to document the process. Very insightful.

Martin is off to a great start. His is coming along nicely. Unfortunately, work gets in the way.

Looking forward to your build.

zendo · Post by **zendo** » Mon Jul 13, 2009 8:56 am

Dave White wrote:Robert,

Welcome - I look forward to seeing your lute take shape. Even in the old days I don't think there were any "proper" woods, makers would have used whatever they had to hand that worked.

Any chance of posting some photos of your fourty year old as it is today?

Hello Dave, It's so good to hear about the "old ways" and to know that there is so much truth there. I really wish I could show you more of "that" lute but the photo is all I have and I know it's the one I made because that is me with it a long time ago. I sold it about 39 years ago and once saw it in the front window of Mick Lewis' music shop in Melbourne advertised as a rare 17th century Stewart Lute... I comfronted Mick but to no avail .. he just laughted and said "tell us another one mate"... Ha, ha.. cheers, Robert ps. If anyone has seen it let me know.

zendo · Post by **zendo** » Mon Jul 13, 2009 9:02 am

Lillian wrote:Welcome Robert. Glad you decided to join in on the madness.

Watching Dave build his lute was great. I must have read through that thread several times. Eggbert sounds wonderful. Its beautiful to look at was well. The rosette is amazing.

I'm not sure which I appreciated more, his building skills or his willingness and ability to document the process. Very insightful.

Martin is off to a great start. His is coming along nicely. Unfortunately, work gets in the way.

Looking forward to your build.

Thanks Lillian, Is Dave's thread still on the forum? I like what Martin is doing and he has been such a help to me. I also work at other things a bit and it's a distraction but at least that is from my home office. I am so excited about making this lute and also happy about this forum... musicians and luthiers are a special congenial bunch.. heard one of the players from the string quartet "Kronos" say that on TV yesterday as well... so true... cheers, Robert

Hesh1956 · Post by **Hesh1956** » Mon Jul 13, 2009 9:42 am

And yet another warm welcome to ya Robert my friend. The ANZLF is a great place to talk Lutherie and you will find many talented and fun folks here.

If your interest is a Baroque lute no worries M8 there are lots of repair folks here who can help you fix her...

Welcome aboard!

Nick · Post by **Nick** » Mon Jul 13, 2009 9:56 am

zendo wrote: Is Dave's thread still on the forum?

Robert the thread Lillian refers to is over here on LuthierCom, it's an excellent thread that follows the trials and tribulations of Dave's beautiful build of an 8 course. Incase you aren't a frequenter of that forum you need to register, but not only are there some great builders & threads, but the price of admission ($0.00) is worth it for Dave's thread alone.

And Hesh......

Hesh wrote:If your interest is a Baroque lute no worries M8 there are lots of repair folks here who can help you fix her...

Groan!

Lillian · Post by **Lillian** » Mon Jul 13, 2009 10:21 am

Hesh, you were so cute!

zendo · Post by **zendo** » Wed Jul 29, 2009 8:07 am

Well I am finally getting somewhere, at least with the mould. It has been a long journey... being re-acquainted with tools and wood, avoiding injury, cleaning up the old workshop, still playing my guitars and banjo and fitting in "paid" work at the same time. Martin has been a great and willing helper. My family have been tolerant and my friends look in amazement "What is this man doing?" Anyway I have learned heaps and surprisingly it has involved some "personal growth" as well... like connecting with others "past and present", exploring the art of making things by hand, questioning modern mechanical "perfection" versus using hand tools and deciding that "good enough" is the way to go... thank-you for the help from you all... Robert... ps. I will upload photos from now on..

zendo · Post by **zendo** » Wed Jul 29, 2009 8:14 am

ooops, forgot to send the picture... hope this works... Robert

Nick · Post by **Nick** » Wed Jul 29, 2009 9:35 am

Receiving the picture Loud an Clear Robert. Another armadillo, good to see. It's funny, 6 months ago I hadn't even thought about Lutes, let alone seeing a build, now in the space of 2 months all I've seen is Armadillo's

As far as self immolation with tools go, it still happens when you least expect it even if you build all the time! Every time I do a build I still end up with belt sanded finger nails and knuckles

kiwigeo · Post by **kiwigeo** » Wed Jul 29, 2009 10:52 pm

All looking good there Robert. With my work schedule Id say youre going to be ahead of me in a few weeks time.

Cheers Martin

Tigermyrtle · Post by **Tigermyrtle** » Sat Aug 01, 2009 1:15 pm

Looking good there Robert, you have done an excellent job on the mould.
I look forward to seeing more photos.
Regards Bob

zendo · Post by **zendo** » Mon Aug 03, 2009 6:20 pm

Tigermyrtle wrote:Looking good there Robert, you have done an excellent job on the mould.
I look forward to seeing more photos.
Regards Bob

hello Bob and Martin, I have taken a few days off work to do some serious Lute building. It has been a good day. I completed the piece of cedar carved for the inside neck piece. The Baroque Lute neck piece is slightly different to the Renaissance lute because the fingerboard is sloping so the piece is cut a little larger to allow for this when the top goes on. I have cut out all the rib templates and put them on cardboard, selected all the Black Wattle rib pieces matched for maximum consistence of grain and colour and used a long steel rule to ensure the lines on the mould line up well. It was a good day and tomorrow I plane and scrape the rib pieces from 2.5 mm to 1.6 mm ready to cut and try to fit them to the mould... wish me well... cheers, Robert

Nick · Post by **Nick** » Mon Aug 03, 2009 6:36 pm

Good luck tomorrow Robert,sounds like it could be a productive day....just remember to have that camera handy

Just finished perusing Robert Lundberg's excellent book (although on first flash the construction sections look a little 'generalised' on detail) so I am all "luted up" at the moment

zendo · Post by **zendo** » Wed Aug 05, 2009 7:42 pm

Nick O wrote:Good luck tomorrow Robert,sounds like it could be a productive day....just remember to have that camera handy
Just finished perusing Robert Lundberg's excellent book (although on first flash the construction sections look a little 'generalised' on detail) so I am all "luted up" at the moment

Hello Nick, I am a bit embarrassed to photograph much of the time but I feel a good photo coming on. Much of my work at the moment (when I have time to do it) is thinking and planning... like a workshop area that is more suitable to the one I have, getting the gluepot and bender up and running as well as time for buying and getting used to fine tools... plenty of excuses there... the forum is very helpful and I appreciate being part of this online community.... cheers, Robert ps. I should have the first three ribs prepared and ready tomorrow... that will be exciting.

zendo · Post by **zendo** » Fri Aug 07, 2009 7:47 am

Nick O wrote:Good luck tomorrow Robert,sounds like it could be a productive day....just remember to have that camera handy
Just finished perusing Robert Lundberg's excellent book (although on first flash the construction sections look a little 'generalised' on detail) so I am all "luted up" at the moment

I agree about the Lundberg book but used in conjunction with other information it seems excellent. Productive days come and go but at least at the moment I am happy about the slow progress. I have regrets every so often but what else would I spend time and my money on? (don't answer that). Currently I have the rib pieces and templates ready (see photo) but I took a chance and cheated by using an electric planer to get the ribs to 2-2.5mm thick and will eventually reduce by hand plane to about 1.6mm. I am also taking another chance by using the band saw to cut out using the template before taking it thinner. I am reluctant to cut them out while they are 1.6 thick. The first cut one has worked well. I will need to be really careful and sand rather than plane the delicate thinner parts of the ribs. Wish me well. Sometimes I think I should have put the money down on a ready made Lute but then I would have missed all this fun

By the way the ribs are made of Queensland Black Wattle because I wanted a cheaper wood for my first attempt and I won't use the AAA grade spruce top, any suggestions of what else to use, perhaps A grade or King Billy pine etc? Any ideas welcomed. Robert

zendo · Post by **zendo** » Fri Aug 07, 2009 7:50 am

Ooops that picture missed again

zendo · Post by **zendo** » Fri Aug 07, 2009 7:56 am

kiwigeo wrote:All looking good there Robert. With my work schedule Id say youre going to be ahead of me in a few weeks time.

Cheers Martin

Hello Martin, Are you back with the land of the living Luthiers yet? Look forward to hearing from you. I am diverting myself into organizing my non-existing workshop and making a workbench. I have to juggle the area below the Queensland house to incorporate paintings storage, washing machine, art studio and workshop... I have too many interests. Talk soon, Robert

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