Western Red Cedar as Bracewood.

[woodrat]

I was wondering what people's thoughts may be on WRC as a bracewood. I have a nice tight grained billet that is not suitable for topwood because of some nail holes and streaky lines of colour but it should be fine for small section recovery like bracewood. I was thinking of making it about 10% larger in section. Anybodies observations or experiences would be welcomed.

John

[kiwigeo]

I tried it under a sitka top on a classical but didnt like it..ended up ripping the braces off and replacing with sitka. Ive always used same wood for top and braces but thats because thats the way Ive been told to do it and I havent really had a reason not to do it. I must say spruce braces turn me on visually more than WRC.....its the main reason I ripped the bWRC braces off the classical. Im sure there a others in here who have used WRC bracing and had no problems.

[xray]

hey john, i have only used western red cedar in my guitars because it is very available and cheap. I agree that 10-15% needs to be considered for strength as my initial guitar tops have bellied under load after a few months of use. My recent builds i have slightly over engeneered the bracing to cope with the problem later on down the track but i have noticed when x braces are cut wider to allow for extra strength, there is only a slight difference in sound production in the final result. I still scallop my braces quite radically to achieve this but coupled with a stiff spruce top there seems to be no problems. have fun hope this helps

[Allen]

I've used them on my Size 5 guitar. Small guitar, low tension. No problems, and great tone. Have no experience on larger bodies and regular tension. The one thing about WRC is how much more it is prone to splitting than say spruce. You really want to keep any transition in hight on scallops to very gentle sweeps.

And like most woods, there is a great deal of difference between stiffness, and hardness from different samples. I've got a few different pieces that have grain count so tight it's hard to count, and is very stiff and hard. Other pieces are the other end of the spectrum, and will make good fire starter.

[woodrat]

Thank you all for your replies. It has confirmed my feelings on the matter. Its greatest thing going for it is that it is so available. I have noticed large differences in its strength across the grain depending on the grain spacing. I have been using old growth tight douglas fir after my first lot of very expensive spruce ran out. It has made some fine instruments but its about 20% heavier than spruce. The WRC is about 10-20% lighter than spruce. I am leaning towards lightness but trying to not sacrifice strength for the same reason that I am steering away from heavy bridge timbers...efficiency. With regards Allan's comment on smooth transitions I agree. My bracing does not have any wild peaky scallops but is parabolic and smooth tapers. Others observations are always welcome and I appreciate being able to learn through this forum.

John

[Hesh1956]

OK I'll be the nay sayer here but I hate being a nay sayer....

IMHO WRC is not stiff enough unless of course you do as you indicated and make your braces more massive. More height will produce stiffer braces than going wider.

Also IMHO I see top braces as vibration meridians that not only stiffen the top hopefully where it needs stiffening but they also, again IMHO, facilitate the transfer of those precious vibrations that power an acoustic guitar.

I have no data here but in the circles of builders that I know it's generally accepted that a WRC top produces a rich, lots of overtones, sounding guitar that is often preferred by finger style players. A spruce top, especially Adi, is generally acknowledged, all things being equal even though they never can be...., to be a louder, more in-your-face sound.

With this said I think that unless you are going for a quieter, finger style guitar with lots of over tones WRC braces may take a bit of punch away from your spruce top.

Regarding bellies - a little bit of belly is not a bad thing. You want the top to be like a spring and in keeping with the spring idea you also want the top to be wound-up, locked and loaded, etc. under string tension and a belly is visual evidence of this. Too much belly is not a good thing as is a belly that is not stable and progressing. But a very slight hump under string tension provided that it's not progressing and there are no loose braces is nothing to be concerned about.

Some of my best friends have bellies...

[xray]

well said hesh, big bellies and plenty to talk about!!!! i totally agree with a belly producing a really reponsive sounding top. my king billy dreadnaught has almost spat its bridge in one corner from being to bellied. This is due to using a less stiff timber on a larger bodied guitar. it also had tight grained wrc as bracing, but i have faith if i used adi for a soundboard it would be fine. just a thought i will post pics soon for clarification.