American Election Race

[Kim]

But, but , but Dave...I 'still' don't know...Why the turn around? How did so many forget the recent past just 2 years into term and come to the conclusion that this ain't gonna work?

That's the bit that has me baffled. Was it the health care thing? My understanding is that healthcare had become such an issue in the USA because it had got to the stage where if you did not have cover you would not receive treatment unless you proved ur capacity to pay up front, and if you did have insurance, then the insurers were determining who would live and who would die by the level of cover in the claimants policy and which procedures they covered.

Dr to insurance assessor: Mr Jones needs a heart transplant urgently or he will die!

Assessor to Dr: Sorry, we only have him down for a bucket of fried chicken and a quickeaz.

What's wrong with fixing the inequity in that situation, even if it does cost those who can afford it a bit more in taxes? You mentioned the record of the US in giving foreign aid, but what of aid for your own?

As I understand it health insurance in the USA is/was most often packaged with a person's job. I.E. "I worked for D & H Barry for 40 years. They didn’t pay much more than it took to make ends meet each month but the health plan was good enough so I stuck it out. Now the gubmint wants to give it away fee to everybody and that just ain't fair!!!"
Is that what's really go’in on???

Serious questions btw

Cheers

Kim

[deadedith]

Waste of time for me, Kim. We've lived with (not just read about) Barry's lies, and their bad effects, and media dis=information for almost 4 years now, and Obamacare is just a part of it. There is so much more. If he wins re-election, it probably won't affect you big picture guys" down under, not for awhile, but me and mine, we'll see the suffering increase right away. You will hear about it. I'm sorry I have to be "the messenger", but that's the way it is.
You can find the information you're asking me about on your own, you're a smart guy, right? Being the messenger, and the big picture guy, and the independent thinker?
I'm done with this thread.
I hope we meet in the luthier's area!

[kiwigeo]

Bugger the US elections....there's a far more important event happening today...The Melbourne Cup!!

[Kim]

I hear there's more foreign entries than ever this year Marty, perhaps a ring in or two among them.

mittsmilitary.jpg (166.25 KiB) Viewed 18259 times

Cheers

Kim

[Lillian]

President Obama will serve for a second term. We all can breath again.

[nnickusa]

ll apoligies to Dave, I prefer Obama.....Just not a Republican fan.....

[P Bill]

To paraphrase Slippery Dick Nixon, when he exited California politics in 62: "You're not going to have Mitt Romney to kick around anymore!"

[nnickusa]

Well, I had read an article in which Romney stated he hadn't bothered to write a concession speech. Evidently he can do one off the cuff....

[Kim]

Good result...great to see that despite Rupert's best shot at do'in what he's best at throughout the western democratic world, the majority of Americans refused to have the wool pulled over their eyes. Long live democracy I say but I do fear the way in which the foremost media outlets have now been almost completely hijacked by the extreme right, and how with each successive election, win or lose, they become more emboldened to ramp up the propaganda to the next level.

I really do wish we could find some way to stop what has become the greatest threat to democracy since it began. It's shameful what has happened to 'good open reporting' here in Australia. Today nearly everything we read, see, or hear has come directly from a PR company. You can't really blame journalist because editorial has been stripped back to the bones and when their doing a story they have little choice but to take what is provided FOC by that someone's publicist or lose their job. That situation is a symptom of a social illness. It's what happens when you allow a sigle entity to have ownership across print, radio and television media, and guess who has that?? Yep Rupert, and its the same deal in the UK and the USA..Bloody Rupert..and guess who changed the cross media ownership legislations here in Australia to allow that situation to happen in this country?? Yep, a pair of eyebrows wearing midget underpants....Again cross media ownership is 'the' single biggest threat to democracy in the western world.

If you truly value free and fair elections then you must at least acknowledge that danger exists rather than expecting that 'they'll do the right thing cause there's laws and stuff' because 'they' won't, 1950 has been and gone and there's just far too much money involved these days to trust the bastards..Stop the rot and speak your mind before the opportunity is gone. 'Regardless' of your political persuasions, someone somewhere had made the ultimate sacrifice to give you a voice, and that poor bastard must have been fighting someone to win it. Most of what we are read, see, and hear in the media today is that same bastards way of trying to win it back. What ever you do, don't give it up without a bloody good fight because one thing is for sure, it won't ever be easily won back again just look at the past.

Cheers

Kim

[Nick]

I could be wrong because I only had half an ear on it but I thought I heard that Romney had actually won the popular vote but Obama had won the greater number of college votes? Either way (even though he won them with what resulted in a landslide number eventually) I get the impression that he realises it was close for so long & nobody clearly knew who was going to take it out until the last 20% of states were in, that he can't just assume that he has all of America on his side, I think his acceptance speech reflected that.
What I want to know is though, why is Florida always the last state to get their results in? I seem to remember George dubya's second term they were late then too & the whole presidency was hinging on that state. They obviously like to be the last to the wedding so that everybody notices their entry

[Kim]

What I want to know is though, why is Florida always the last state to get their results in?

Its Florida Nick, as I understand lots of seniors make their way to the warmth of Florida to see out the autumn years. For some older folk it can be hard enough remembering why their at the polling booth let alone who it is their meant to be voting for and those zimmer frames aren't exactly the swiftest mod of transport.

Cheers

Kim

[kiwigeo]

The tv footage of the Obama and Romney supporters immediately post result told the whole story for me. Had to look hard to see anyone in the Romney crowd who didn't look like well off and white.

[ozwood]

This is my only contribution to this debate !

[P Bill]

A potential new chum,


http://www.theage.com.au/technology/tec ... 28zhi.html

[Nick]

This is my only contribution to this debate !

One thing Australia does share with USA though is that you have great pride in your country & being an Aussie!

[nnickusa]

It's quite amazing to see how many world-leaders and politicians have chimed in in favour of Obama now that the election is over. Most cite Romney's ?economic? agenda. Seems the concensus is that the Us and the rest of the world, free or not, would likely have plunged into another and prolonged economic catastrophe had his plans gone forward, and the majority of the world are perfectly happy to see him not win.

Now, Obama has his work cut out for him. Jan 1, 2013 is a bloody big day for the US. mandatory tax increases and spending cuts come into play if Obama can't convince Congress to change the rules.

Popcorn, please.....

[woodrat]

...and I still dont understand US politics!...

[Nick]

...and I still dont understand US politics!...

Harder to workout than a Rubik's Cube John

[P Bill]

...and I still dont understand US politics!...

A good place to start is understanding 47% of US citizens believe the earth is at most only 10,000 years old. We come in just ahead of Turkey.
This election has been about the changeing US demographic. In 8 years Texas could become a swing state. Here's hopeing the Republican extremists get run out of town.
I say this as a dual passport holder and a Vietnam Vet ( signal corps support troop on the DMZ, attached to the Americal Divison) which is more than most Republican pollies or their sons can say (living and working in a war zone for a year).
In thirty one years I've been back to the States 5 times. Three times in the last 7 years. I'm not the same old Yank I was, but America to me is a very foreign country.

[Lillian]

The popular vote was close. Obama 50.4% Romney 48.0%
The electoral vote was far from close. Obama 332 Romney 206.

The Republican extremist were all voted out with the exception of one and Michele Bachmann narrowly won her re-election.

Turn out for voting was so large that places ran out of ballots. There are places where they are still counting ballots.

I don't think the country has ever been as invested in an election as they were in this one.

Oh, on a side note. Fran and I can now get married in our home state.

[deadedith]

I'm getting a handle on you-all now. 5 minutes' googling got me a lot of answers. No wonder you have made it clear you don't want me around here. It's who you are.
There's mountains more of this stuff, but you already know it, being messengers, and big picture guys (ooooh...scary) and fiercely independent thinkers.
What a bunch of fakes. Sorry.
It's on the internet, so it must be true.



"These young Australians have grown up as beneficiaries of an American shield that has allowed them as individuals to ignore any personal responsibility for the defence of Australia and we, as a nation, to spend much less on defence than if we did not rely so heavily on America for our ultimate security.

But I am confident that if tomorrow we awoke to find an invading force just off our shores, these young people would awake to reality and learn very quickly that all of us, individually, have a stake in the defence of Australia."

The theme of the article was simply that, in an asymmetrical relationship such as middle-power Australia enjoys with superpower America, it is wise for the junior partner not to be deluded to the point of dependence by relying on a so-called 'special relationship'.

This was not to suggest that our ANZUS relationship with the US is a pact with the devil. But it was to argue that former Prime Ministers were wrong when they proclaimed that Australians and Americans 'think the same, act the same, and want the same things'.

Today Australia supposedly has a defence policy that stresses 'self-reliance within an alliance context'. I am not the only one to ask if the 'self-reliance' bit in that policy really means anything.

Are we, in fact, capable of creating a more independently minded Australian foreign policy - one in which we identify and act upon our own national interests without assuming, as we do so often, that we share everything in common with the United States? And are we willing to individually and collectively bear the financial responsibility and personal commitment necessary to provide effectively for our own defence?

Rather than grapple with serious questions like that, some find it far easier to fall back on common slurs and amuse themselves with cheap jibes about the 'Septics'. We might more profitably go to work on substantive suggestions for a more independent and independently minded Australian foreign and defence policy.

On occasions when I have thrown out that challenge, the most common response from real die-hard America haters, is to blame our politicians and/or suggest that US imperialism is so comprehensive, clever and lethal that we are all victims of it.

How convenient! A ready excuse to dismiss any positive and constructive independent action on our own behalf. Apparently, there is nothing left for us to do but moan and bitterly blame others.

Of course your anti-American, because its easy. Out of 310 million, no one knows where or cares about Australia? You cannot differentiate between corporate greed, which covers all countries with simple minded generalizations that all of your like minded appalled citizens regurgitate with gusto. As far as our violence culture, continue getting it off the television. Since England and Australia disarmed themselves you continue with the stabbings and home invasions and beatings, rapes and other acts on defenseless citizens. It is clear that Australia has "grown" up as a society and the USA is behind in evolution.

My experience with australians is that they are like canadians, only a bit tanner and a bit less likely to practice censorship.... But they are FAR MORE unwilling to self examine, which could explain why australia has some of the most brutal racial incidents in recent years. Sorry, you cannot blame Americans for your racism, australia.

Anti-Americanism (ESPECIALLY the gratuitous, feminine, mouthy and child-like type common in the English speaking world) is based primarily on rage at an un-equal relationship. It says A LOT more about the Australians, New Zealanders, Irish, English, etc., mouthing off than about the United States and Americans.

And of course goofy leftists the world over despise the United States because it never copied lock, stock and barrel European style socialism and is still perceived to be the main stumbling block to a world-wide worker's socialist paradise.

The U.S. is also perceived to be too masculine by half, and everyone familiar with political correctness knows feminism=good, masculinity=bad.

I've met many Australians here in the U.S. at my job with a multi-national accounting firm, and found most to be perfectly agreeable; especially compared to say Brits, MOST of whom are either very shy or arrogant. But rest assured this is one American who has ZERO desire to steal any of your Australian 'Culture', and has zero desire or need to visit Australia, so you have nothing to worry about from me.

Anti-americanism has been around in Australia long before the Bush administration. All I heard when I was a kid was anti-americanism, yet at the same time, everyone wanted to be just like America. The hypocrisy this country has is quite unbelievable but no Aussie would ever admit it. I have defended America for as long as I can remember, not so much because I appreciate America, for what it stands for and what they have done in history but for the simple fact that I hate rcism in any form. Because that's what it is, bottom line people. And if you don't think it's racism, then maybe, just maybe it's the US government that you hate, not the american people. Maybe Australians should learn english first before spewing incoherent babble all the time and just say you hate the US government for it's poor decisions, you sure aren't shy about saying it against the Australian government. Or maybe you really are just a bunch of racists like with the aboriginals and the chinese and the middle easterners. Who knows, but one thing I do know, I as an Australian, am fed up with the constant bitching about America and it sometimes makes me ashamed to be even remotely connected to this country.

[liam_fnq]

Just when I thought no one could match Kim's incomprehensible rants....................




P.S. A heartfelt congratulations to Lillian.

[ozwood]

Can't help it !!!!!!

So America came to our aid in WW2 , no argument , I am Gratefull , Does that mean that for eternity we are obliged to to get mixed up in every conflict that the US is involved in .

Does that mean we must agree with all things US of A regardless of how it sits with our own values ?

Here is another little fact most in the US would not be aware of, 73 % of Australian were dead against Australia's involvement in the second Iraq War , but Bonsai ( little Bush ) Howard the elected dictator of the day, decided that if George said I should do it and if I do, I'll be invited to Georges for the weekend and get a pat on the head ( both happened ) ,Our peterol is still well over a $1.50 /l so it acheived bugger all for us, besides wasting a lot of money , destroying a lot of lives, as did Vietnam, Iraq 1 , Afganistan I'm only a young fella so I'm sure I'm forgetting a few but you get the Idea, I think we have squared the ledger.

I don't judge all of American's by their Goverment , I have very much liked most that I have met , can't see that changing .

I would hate to be judged by some of the deeds of our government .

Many great things have come out of the US , But as the worlds largest Superpower a lot of responsability comes with that, I get the Feeling Obama get's that , I think Clinton got that .


some of the others not so much .


Please deadedith don't take it to heart, it ain't Personal, if you wanted to come for a holiday , I think 90% of the members would be happy to have a beer with you and discuss Guitars (politics , not so much ) , I think if I went to the US it would be the same .

Friends should never discuss politics and this is why, it always get's personal .

You should be flattered we take so much interest .

Cheers,

[Nick]

Why have I got that acidic taste of blood in my mouth?
And great news Lillian

[peter.coombe]

No wonder you have made it clear you don't want me around here.

Not true! Where on this discussion has it been said you are not wanted? Can't we agree to disagree? Isn't that what politics is all about? So we disagree with your politics, so what. What is the big deal?

As for the quoted text, that does not mean everyone here is anti American. Sure, many might disagree with US government policies, or disagree with much of the conservative politics in the US, but that does not make us anti American. I have read other texts similar to what you quoted, it is nothing new, but that is just the writings of a small number of individuals, and quite frankly I consider it to be mostly a load of old BS. I have visited the USA (loved the visit), and have many friends and good customers in the USA. As for the "big picture" which you are so fond of poking fun at, I probably should have stated it differently - what I meant was I was more concerned with the basic principle of universal health care, not the details on how it has been implemented. "big picture" was just less typing.

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but Bonsai ( little Bush ) Howard the elected dictator of the day

Yes well Bonsai Howard blatently lied to us. Said no decision had been made whether we would participate in Iraq II when Australian troops were already on the ground fighting in Iraq before the coalition of the (un)willing invasion. Did not go down too well.

Congrats Lillian!