Some Americans speak the truth

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Dennis Leahy
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Some Americans speak the truth

Post by Dennis Leahy » Sat Dec 08, 2007 2:01 am

Another damn Yank!

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Allen
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Post by Allen » Sat Dec 08, 2007 6:59 am

Absolutely one of the best commentaries that I have ever seen on Bush. I wonder if Bush ever gets to see commentaries like this, and if he does, will it sink in? I think he is either so devious, he wouldn't care, or he's so stupid that he it wouldn't register.
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Post by Bob Connor » Sat Dec 08, 2007 8:19 am

I suspect the latter.

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Post by Dennis Leahy » Sat Dec 08, 2007 10:23 am

Allen wrote:... I think he is either so devious, he wouldn't care, or he's so stupid that he it wouldn't register.
The malaprops, lowbrow and ineffectual attempts at verbal improvisation, and lack of oratorical skills do give the impression of a dolt, but I believe this black hearted marionette possess just enough intellect to knowingly participate in the malevolent plot. On the other hand, Cheney (the puppet master), had his heart replaced with matter from a black hole.

Dennis
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Post by Allen » Sat Dec 08, 2007 12:54 pm

I watched about 10 of the following video's. It just beggars belief on what that administration has managed to get away with. I don't know how anyone with any self respect and integrity could be the White House Spokesperson and still get up every morning and face the person in the mirror.

Any speculation on what Bush sees in the mirror?
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Post by BillyT » Sat Dec 08, 2007 6:24 pm

The thing that concerns me about so much negative feelings against Bush is it really colors the real danger in the American political system.

I feel like there's such a backlash against Republicans that everybodies running to vote Democrat instead of realizing theyre both hangin from the same corporate rectum.

The corporation ploys one against the other as many companies give substantial contributions to both sides. So which issues do they side, or is it clearly a bribe.

If one votes as a disaffected then his vote diffuses amongst, what, 7-8 parties? Then the Republican/Democrat wins again!

This is a real danger considering the corporate insidious threat against democracy principle itself.



Eh! Vote for ME ! :lol:

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Post by Paul B » Sat Dec 08, 2007 7:48 pm

Well, I for one, find it hard to believe that you could become the President of The United States and at the same time be a friggin moron (though, there appears to be some fairly significant evidence to the contrary). So what does that leave? He's crazy? Or, He has his own (secret) agenda?

In my not quite so humble opinion, you Americans should start to bloody well vote. You give up your right to complain if you don't. We just got rid of a bad administration over here, and it feels pretty damned good too.

Imagine how (significantly) different the world would be today if Al Gore had got in instead of Bush. Funny that Gore got the majority of the vote and still didn't get in. A fella would have to be a clever, sneaky bastard to get away with that. Not stupid at all.

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Post by Kim » Sat Dec 08, 2007 10:13 pm

Paul, just an opinion here but I would not give Bush junior too much credit. I see him as just a brand name for a product and that is all. Bush senior, now that is a differnt story. I see him as one of the main players behind that product and the marketing team on-board has some of the most manipulative, slimy, ruthless and corrupt bastards this planet has ever known.

It is my view that "Team Bush" needed to keep the label on their snake oil much the same in order to maintain the market share that was already won from the promotional value presented to them by their first bite. That was of course the ousting of Saddam and his thugs from Kuwait {better known in Kim's world as Saddam v Halliburton Phase 1.}

If you think back, doesn't it seems a little strange that phase 1 would have just suddenly been called off like that? That US troops were stopped from entering Baghdad and finishing the job?? Then again, I guess if your plan, or "products" sole purpose is to convert tax payers $ into corporate funds, then you would need time to set things up so you can take the best advantage of the situation at hand. Could be that things went so well you could even chance a "phase 2" a second even BIGGER bite of the cherry.

If this were the plan, then you would certainly need time to allow the coffers to refill. Also it would be better to allow the heart of the electorate to grow fonder by the absents of your brand before you took that second big bite.

So, maybe phase 1 could be to strain the public purse as much as you could possibly get away with, laundering taxes into the private sector as you pay them to put out oil fires and replace ordnance. The spin guys would have a ball with the "securing the worlds oil supply" yarn and the "Environmental Saviour" angle would ensure that all would not smell too bad as you walked away from the scene for a term.

For phase 2, the big bite, the one where you blow the shit out of everything in Iraq and then need to rebuild it once again using US taxes to fund the private sector, well, I reckon you would need someone to take the lead who was vein and gullible, someone greedy and conceited enough to believe their own press, a real moron that you could manipulate easily so they end up wearing the back lash when people finally wake up to what has been going on all this time. Enter THE perfect choice. :lol:

In fact, it is just soo perfect that I suspect his old man groomed him for the job from birth playing tapes to him in his sleep that repeated "Just shut up and say what your told and everything will work out fine" Indeed I would not be at all surprised that if one were to pants the little bugger and bent him over, they were to find a fist sized flap where his ring would normally be which reads, "Insert Hand Here" :D

Cheers

Kim

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Post by Paul B » Sat Dec 08, 2007 10:27 pm

I dunno. I think it's pretty clear (now at least), why George senior didn't take out Saddam in the first war. I think somebody said something like "if we kill Saddam now, we might have trouble getting out of Iraq ourselves. If we create a power vacuum there, we'll have to stick around until somebody (to our liking) fills it, in the mean time we'll have to fill it ourselves, it'll cost billions".

"Fuck that", says George senior.

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Post by Kim » Sun Dec 09, 2007 12:03 am

Naaah sorry Paul I don't wear that as it is the very excuse they gave back when they pulled the pin. Truth is though that ol'WW had been dealing with the Sunnis long enough from his CIA days to know who to plug the hole with to stop any vacuum and maintain status quo if that was the desire.

I suspect that things have panned out pretty much as planned. By maintaining "The Butcher of Baghdad" at the helm, the hawks had a good reason to revisit at a time of their own choosing. As a result the world is now paying much, much, much more for it's oil (just remember where the Bush family, and nearly all of it's admin has it's roots) and, all those lovely, but once inaccessible tax dollars have now been moved from the public purse, into the pockets of the private sector. Mission accomplished I would say. :cry:

It should also be remembered that after phase 1, Saddam had then signed away lots of oil production contacts to the French and Russians excluding USA from any consideration as a form of reprisal for Kuwait. Once the US took control of Iraq and ousted Saddam, those contracts became null and void allowing US companies to submit tender for those same concerns. This could explain why both France and Russia so vigorously defended Saddam in the UN, if I recall correctly, they either both used power of veto against preemptive, or at least they threatened to do so. Hence the "coalition of the willing", who do you reckon ended up winning those contracts when they were re-tendered? My money says it was not Russia or France :lol:

Cheers

Kim

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Post by Hesh1956 » Sun Dec 09, 2007 12:18 am

bob wrote:I suspect the latter.
Idiot in chief.......... Yeah I suspect that too but I agree that he is a liar as well.

I watched Michael Moore's new movie "sicko" last night and it is excellent. One of the points made by a French dude was that in France the government fears the people because the people will replace the government if they go astray. He went on to say that in America the people fear the government and as a result are far less likely to do anything to change the government. Along the way our so called democracy has morphed into a greater acceptance that government is just something that we cannot change and must simply deal with what we have.........

I don't think that bush ever expected to be president in the first place. It was panic time when he won the parties nomination and his handlers had to bring in people like Rice to teach him how to spell Iraq........

In the states our biggest fear is that something might happen to Cheney because then Bush would be president........ :lol:

When the new house of representatives leadership came in a year ago they proactively took impeachment off the table. I was livid and wondered why anyone would offer to limit our choices when the issue of impeachment was not even a real issue - yet............

Bush is nothing more then a lap dummy for Cheney and big oil and the least intelligent president in American history........

But this will all change in now less then a year and I am very hopeful for that.

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Post by Ron Wisdom » Sun Dec 09, 2007 1:14 am

Oh Lord, deliver us from evil!! I agree with everything said above. Bush is, by far, the lamest leader I've ever seen.

I love John Fogerty's new CD. If you guys haven't heard it you need to. He's got a couple of great protest songs on it.

Ron

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Post by Hesh1956 » Sun Dec 09, 2007 12:22 pm

Thanks Ron bro for the tip - I will get it from Itunes. I always loved CCR any way - great building music!!!!!

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Post by sebastiaan56 » Sun Dec 09, 2007 12:45 pm

BillyT wrote:The thing that concerns me about so much negative feelings against Bush is it really colors the real danger in the American political system.

I feel like there's such a backlash against Republicans that everybodies running to vote Democrat instead of realizing theyre both hangin from the same corporate rectum.

The corporation ploys one against the other as many companies give substantial contributions to both sides. So which issues do they side, or is it clearly a bribe.

If one votes as a disaffected then his vote diffuses amongst, what, 7-8 parties? Then the Republican/Democrat wins again!

This is a real danger considering the corporate insidious threat against democracy principle itself.
These are my sentiments as well Billy. Im pretty sure thats exactly what happened at our last election. Time will tell.

Sebastiaan

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Post by Dennis Leahy » Sun Dec 09, 2007 3:26 pm

There is potential trouble in voting "against" rather than voting "for." I campaigned (for the first time in my life) door-to-door for John Kerry in the previous US presidential election. Kerry probably would have been OK as president, but I was really campaigning against Bush/Cheney.

Lobbyists and other special interest groups have way too much access into the souls of politicians. Too many (US) politicians are rich, filthy rich, with "old" money, and haven't a clue what the average citizen's struggles are like.

Generally, ALL politicians fear they will lose the power and glory of their cushy jobs, and react in fear of their own demise. They know they can be brought down by corporate and special interest groups that target them for removal. So, they "play the game." The worst of them are as greedy and self serving as the Bush administration; the best of them are half-assed, and compromised. It's no wonder that real progressive ideals are never made into laws or even publicly stated goals.

So I agree with Billy, there is a much bigger problem with the American political system, and it will not disappear even if all the rubber-stamping Republican cohorts of Bush are replaced with Democrats. The two-party system is a major contributor to the problem, as it makes it easy for corporations and lobbyists to divide their contributions. Still, when forced to choose between the only two parties that can win elections, I have to vote against anyone who stands with the Bush/Cheney machine, and vote for the only other one that can win.


I do think Kim has caught a glimpse of the big picture, where each of the players on stage is intertwined and interconnected into a 3-dimensional puppet show with even the puppeteers themselves being marionettes. These public players are greedy, malevolent, sociopathic monsters, but the strings connected to them lead up to the next tier, where the real big boys (the 1% gang) reside. The 1% include heads of major US corporations (many with defense contracts) and also include global players like Rupert Murdoch and the Saudi Arabian king and crown princes - a loose alliance of thieves fighting shoulder-to-shoulder for power, control, and the spoils of the 99%. It is quite possible that the 1% already has insurmountable tactical and resource advantage, including enough control of the media to disinform and counter-spin any attempt to unveil them for what they are, much less stop them.

My very favorite Twilight Zone TV episode was called "The Monsters Are Due on Maple Street." The residents of Maple Street were easily manipulated by fear and paranoia, and so too are we.

===================

I don't intend to make the ANZLF my bully pulpit to express all my political views, ad infinitum. I promise. I just saw that stirring commentary by Keith Olbermann, and thought I'd share it. I don't want to be divisive, and I'm sure there may be a few members from the US that believe in Bush. Two-thirds of my own Irish Catholic family would vote for Bush for a third term, based on his verbal support of pro-life. Sorry, Serge, but the most religious are often the most easily led, because the shepherds know just what to say to the sheep to gain trust and support, then know how to spin the consequences of their actions to baffle the believers. Spin is simply a synonym for lie, and these folks are master manipulators of the truth.

I'm really here at the ANZLF to gather knowledge and insights into lutherie, and hang out with you cool cats (and kittens.) So, back to the sawdust...

Dennis
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Post by Kim » Sun Dec 09, 2007 4:50 pm

Dennis Leahy wrote: I'm really here at the ANZLF to gather knowledge and insights into lutherie, and hang out with you cool cats (and kittens.) So, back to the sawdust...

Dennis
Bugger! I thought we were the seed of revolution! Oh well, I'm going back to me glue pot :D

Cheers all.

Kim

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Post by Serge » Sun Dec 09, 2007 5:30 pm

Dennis Leahy wrote: I don't want to be divisive, and I'm sure there may be a few members from the US that believe in Bush. Two-thirds of my own Irish Catholic family would vote for Bush for a third term, based on his verbal support of pro-life. Sorry, Serge, but the most religious are often the most easily led, because the shepherds know just what to say to the sheep to gain trust and support, then know how to spin the consequences of their actions to baffle the believers. Spin is simply a synonym for lie, and these folks are master manipulators of the truth.
Dennis
Dear Dennis, i will probably surprise you but somehow, i agree with you, everything that has been said here does not come to me as something new, i used to have a foot or even both feet in this world like you still have, i was not always a born again Christian, my personal relationship with Jesus has really started last year when i decided to conciously get baptised by immersion so i can totally see what you are seeing in the political realm today with the earthly glasses that you still have on and contrarily to what you might think of my christianity, i am not a Bush supporter and i sure am not a Clinton supporter either.

To me, being a Christian does not mean that you belong to a denominational church(Catholics, protestant, name it...), to me, being a Christian means that you belong to Christ Himself and that you follow Him and obey Him, not man. Doesn't matter to me what Bush thinks or say because if he does not walk the walk, it's just talk, talk, talk and am fully aware that when a politician says "God bless", you always have to wonder which deity he serves...So i don't believe in Bush, i believe in God, God will never let me down.

You said that the most religious are often the most easily led, because the shepherds know just what to say to the sheep to gain trust and support, then know how to spin the consequences of their actions to baffle the believers and to which i will agree, what you don't seem to understand though is that i am not a religious person and i don't listen to every men of cloth that i meet because i would be lost in a heartbeat. For truth, i have the Bible which i am convinced is the infaillible and inherant Word of God. Christianity is not a religion, it is about a RELATIONSHIP! :D

I'll tell you why i hate man-made religion, it is because religion, by definition is the lame attempt by men to reach a Holy and an Almighty God by manly ways(thinking that we can save ourselves by our own good works) which is viewed by God as deeds as dirty as filthy rags while all God wants from us is that we see our need of a Savior and turn to Him as we are(but with a sincere heart) and ask Him to forgive us and save us, to turn from our wicked ways(REPENT) and walk with Him ie to have a personal relationship with Him and getting to know Him by reading His Word and praying to Him. God is probably more anti-religion than you and me combined Dennis. So religion is a revelation from below ie from men to men, from one generation to another while "true Christianity"[/color]and being born again of the Spirit of God is a revelation from above and that is from God and more powerful than anything any human being will ever experience in a lifetime.

I see the world with different glasses and see the forces that are at work to bring men against each other and nations against one another. The earthly players can do bad things and i do see exactly what you're seeing, been there and done that, what i now clearly see is the spirit behind such or such man, i know which camp they serve by the fruits that they bear, a good tree will bear good fruits, a bad tree cannot bear good fruits...

My Shepherd is Jesus and He doesn't lead anyone in the wrong direction.

What i have tried to say i guess is that if you're looking for Truth, Peace and Justice in this fallen world, well good luck friend, you will be listening to a lot of rant from the keith Olbermans and Alex Jones of the youtubes and googlevideos but these "ranters" will never satisfy your need for all three of them simulteneously like only God can. All that you are seeing now in the secular news and on the alternative news sources and networks has already been predicted thousands of years ago, it's just a matter of being open minded enough to go and read it for yourself.

Ah, Man, i done it again, i just mixed politics with God!!!! :lol:

Best

Serge
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Post by Dennis Leahy » Mon Dec 10, 2007 2:09 am

Serge, I should not have mentioned you by name. I know you have said before that you don't follow a religion. I guess I was sort of apologizing to you because I was about to say something that a lot of Christians would not want to hear. In addition to not being American, the shoe doesn't fit you, so you don't have to wear it.

Bush proclaimed that he is a born again Christian, and that was a magic phrase for many, many Americans. Many have accepted Bush the born again Christian into their hearts and now will defend him to their last breath. Bush said a lot of different things about war with and occupation of Iraq, but among them, he declared that the US was saving the people of Iraq (first from the Butcher of Baghdad, later from Al Qaeda, then from extremists...) All of this "saving" of the Iraqi people was going on while the genocide in the Darfur region of Sudan raged on, with virtually no attempt by the US government to do anything to help the people of Darfur. Somehow, the Bush/Cheney spin doctors and right-wing propagandists have managed to hold onto the support from most of the Christians, in spite of the obvious US government's un-Christian deeds and lack of humanitarian action.

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Post by Serge » Mon Dec 10, 2007 6:54 am

Dennis, i am so glad that you can see the difference and before i go any further, thank you.

Not every mouth who professes to be "christian" actually is and there's a lot of "lip service" out there, and even in a building where there would be true followers of Christ, really practicing what Jesus taught us, there could be enemies of God trying to push their false doctrines and disperse the flock so that's where the knowledge of the Bible come in handy because the Word of God is living and active. Sharper than any double-edged sword, it penetrates even to dividing soul and spirit, joints and marrow; it judges the thoughts and attitudes of the heart.
Hebrews 4:11-13

The book of Galatians also teaches how to recognize a true believer ie by the fruits:

But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, patience, kindness, goodness, faithfulness, gentleness and self-control. Against such things there is no law. Those who belong to Christ Jesus have crucified the sinful nature with its passions and desires.(Galatians 5:22-24)

Now that does not mean that a true Christian is perfect but means that he/she is lead, trained by the Spirit to become Christ like, a soldier of peace

So what you are saying about any political leader or group adhering to any particular human philosophy is true in a sense and men should not rely on what they profess with their mouths, just watch them walk and see if that walk goes with the talk.

I use to vote by trying to see what was in the heart of man but the heart of man is deceitful unless the person is truly guided by the wisdom of God which in our secular world is rather rare so my only option as a believer is to pray for whoever is in power that the Lord will bind and defeat any spiritual entity that works against the building of the Kingdom of God. It is not always the man that bothers us but rather the spirit behind him.

For we do not wrestle against flesh and blood, but against principalities, against powers, against the rulers of the darkness of this age(Ephesians 6:12)

What humans cannot see unless a veil is lifted off from their eyes is the spiritual war that is raging right now in the heavenly realms and the reward is the number of human souls won for either side. Political leaders might think that they have power but who do they serve is the true question that we have to ask ourselves, do they serve the people for God or do they serve the god of money for their own interests?

So it don't matter if someone is a Republican or a Democrat, who they serve is what counts.

I will let you draw your own conclusions bro but i know where i stand and i will stand firm in Jesus for only in Him can i find true Love, true Peace while still here and because i know who will prevail in the end.

YF Serge
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Post by James Mc » Thu Dec 13, 2007 8:48 pm

For the past 7 years I’ve been a conservation advocate and prior to that I spent 10 years taking on short-term engineering contracts to fund myself travelling around our pretty blue planet doing humanitarian aid work. So my view on politics is an eyes wide open one that has come from dealing with politicians in Australia and overseas for many years.

What I see as being a fundamental truth about any democratically elected President or Prime Minister is that they are to some extent puppets to the people who got them elected. So who got them elected? Well if you look at donations to political parties you will find that many companies give the maximum allowable donation to any party that has a reasonable chance of winning, that way whoever wins they have a stake in it. Multinational corporations that deal in resource extraction or munitions seem to head the list of companies that give the most. In a world where political advertising costs millions and if you don’t have the money then you’re not in the game, it us understandable that ethics will always take a back seat to the pragmatism of doing what it takes to win (dirty deals done dirt cheap).

Having experienced the aftermath of both war and mining on innocent people as an aid worker, I’m appalled that we have a system that lets the companies that profit from these activities buy political consideration with election donations.

The answer to idiot puppet political leaders is easy, cap spending on election advertising. That way parties that would spend as much on humanitarian aid as the current crop do on war would have some chance of getting in. The other way would be to appoint a nice peace loving greenie from North Queensland as benevolent dictator of the world.
:lol:

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Post by sebastiaan56 » Fri Dec 14, 2007 11:15 am

James Mc wrote:dirty deals done dirt cheap
Im teaching that to my son on the guitar at the moment. The only one of our lot who could carry off the karaoke for it would be Costello, nobody else could leer as well. The yanks are lucky, they have Cheney....

Seriously James, you are speakin the word,

Sebastiaan

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Post by Serge » Fri Dec 14, 2007 3:04 pm

Anyone familiar with the bilderberg group?

I think that they run the show worldwide in terms od shadowy groups of influence, the amero might be here sooner than we think...
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